1 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:09,500 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:27,850 --> 00:00:23,620 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:30,550 --> 00:00:27,860 show number 87 for the 18th of jun 2010 4 00:00:33,010 --> 00:00:30,560 richardson is with you all the way from 5 00:00:35,020 --> 00:00:33,020 Sydney Australia which depending on 6 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:35,030 where you are of course is on the other 7 00:00:40,180 --> 00:00:37,610 side of the world or it's the next 8 00:00:43,110 --> 00:00:40,190 country along or sort of just across the 9 00:00:46,299 --> 00:00:43,120 street or I think you get the idea 10 00:00:48,210 --> 00:00:46,309 today's episode is chock-a-block cyber 11 00:00:51,460 --> 00:00:48,220 to get through this intro really quickly 12 00:00:54,579 --> 00:00:51,470 Kylie Sturgis chats with dr. Janice 13 00:00:57,060 --> 00:00:54,589 bennion from the UK all about her blog 14 00:00:59,560 --> 00:00:57,070 and activities with ladies who do 15 00:01:02,590 --> 00:00:59,570 skepticism meeting up chatting about 16 00:01:05,469 --> 00:01:02,600 skepticism with ladies in the UK and I 17 00:01:07,780 --> 00:01:05,479 think they're going to be at tam 82 very 18 00:01:09,940 --> 00:01:07,790 interesting interview that's followed by 19 00:01:11,770 --> 00:01:09,950 a special report by our good friend Sean 20 00:01:14,500 --> 00:01:11,780 the blogger naught he and a group of 21 00:01:17,050 --> 00:01:14,510 friends went to a mind body spirit / 22 00:01:19,450 --> 00:01:17,060 wallet Expo in Adelaide here in 23 00:01:23,410 --> 00:01:19,460 Australia and have a chat about what 24 00:01:24,850 --> 00:01:23,420 they discover and that's followed by the 25 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:24,860 think tank where we're back at our 26 00:01:29,770 --> 00:01:27,410 favorite club down the street will there 27 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:29,780 be a bus announcement that is the 28 00:01:34,930 --> 00:01:32,210 question well keep listening and find 29 00:01:48,050 --> 00:01:34,940 out so put that TV down stop watching 30 00:01:54,540 --> 00:01:51,150 I'm Carly Sturgis and I'm talking to 31 00:01:56,820 --> 00:01:54,550 Janice bennion Janice panion is the 32 00:01:59,400 --> 00:01:56,830 co-organizer of skeptics in the pub for 33 00:02:01,680 --> 00:01:59,410 greater manchester skeptics she's the 34 00:02:04,469 --> 00:02:01,690 co-host of the just skeptics podcast and 35 00:02:07,530 --> 00:02:04,479 one of the ladies behind ladies who do 36 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:07,540 skepticism so far this group has 37 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:09,090 featured on the righteous indignation 38 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:12,850 podcast episode 50 BBC radio manchester 39 00:02:18,479 --> 00:02:16,570 and the guardian newspaper she joins us 40 00:02:20,460 --> 00:02:18,489 on a skeptic zone to talk about how it 41 00:02:22,350 --> 00:02:20,470 is not only active in England but 42 00:02:28,770 --> 00:02:22,360 starting to make significant moves 43 00:02:31,380 --> 00:02:28,780 overseas Janice you are a member of the 44 00:02:33,750 --> 00:02:31,390 Greater Manchester skeptics and you are 45 00:02:36,740 --> 00:02:33,760 even responsible for the meetup com site 46 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:36,750 you've told me yeah that's why I 47 00:02:41,550 --> 00:02:38,890 organize skeptics in the pub together 48 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:41,560 with a few guys over here we have a 49 00:02:46,530 --> 00:02:44,290 meetup website and also Facebook and all 50 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:46,540 normal stuff wonderful it's a great way 51 00:02:51,150 --> 00:02:48,130 of getting to know people buy these 52 00:02:53,490 --> 00:02:51,160 online midwives isn't it yeah definitely 53 00:02:55,830 --> 00:02:53,500 it's so we seem to have reached quite a 54 00:02:57,900 --> 00:02:55,840 number of people who aren't on the on 55 00:03:00,420 --> 00:02:57,910 the Facebook you know and who actually I 56 00:03:01,890 --> 00:03:00,430 kind of have a strong opinions about not 57 00:03:03,420 --> 00:03:01,900 being on facebook cuz every time we 58 00:03:04,949 --> 00:03:03,430 write a little poster says something 59 00:03:07,620 --> 00:03:04,959 like you know maybe we should just 60 00:03:09,150 --> 00:03:07,630 switch to facebook everyone well now 61 00:03:10,620 --> 00:03:09,160 about fifty percent people right no 62 00:03:14,250 --> 00:03:10,630 don't move to facebook i don't use 63 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:14,260 facebook i hate facebook so yeah now 64 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:16,510 what led you to first describe yourself 65 00:03:23,069 --> 00:03:19,090 as a skeptic if you do describe yourself 66 00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:23,079 as a skeptic that is and yeah I do i do 67 00:03:29,340 --> 00:03:25,510 think that the actual description came 68 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:29,350 much after the fact though i'd say that 69 00:03:35,039 --> 00:03:32,610 basically i've always been interested in 70 00:03:37,740 --> 00:03:35,049 well I've always asked questions that's 71 00:03:39,990 --> 00:03:37,750 thing and I think probably the very 72 00:03:41,220 --> 00:03:40,000 first thing I can think of it wasn't 73 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:41,230 that early I'm not gonna pretend that it 74 00:03:44,039 --> 00:03:42,370 was when I was five years old or 75 00:03:46,199 --> 00:03:44,049 something you know and I was asking 76 00:03:49,020 --> 00:03:46,209 ridiculous questions to my parents no it 77 00:03:51,539 --> 00:03:49,030 was actually that my brother bought me a 78 00:03:53,670 --> 00:03:51,549 book because I'm really bad at maths and 79 00:03:55,740 --> 00:03:53,680 when you're a geneticist or everyone and 80 00:03:57,100 --> 00:03:55,750 you're bad at maths that can be a little 81 00:03:59,830 --> 00:03:57,110 bit of a problem 82 00:04:01,450 --> 00:03:59,840 so when I was at University he bought me 83 00:04:03,070 --> 00:04:01,460 a book which is why the buses come in 84 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:03,080 threes the hidden mathematics of 85 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:06,290 everyday life which is yes I read that 86 00:04:12,010 --> 00:04:08,810 book and I don't i'm not sure it 87 00:04:13,210 --> 00:04:12,020 actually helped my maths as such but it 88 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:13,220 certainly helped my understanding of 89 00:04:18,190 --> 00:04:14,810 math and it really helped me to realize 90 00:04:19,840 --> 00:04:18,200 that there's a lot of lot of maths out 91 00:04:23,590 --> 00:04:19,850 there which which is presented to you 92 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:23,600 everyday which is kind of not real mats 93 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:25,730 at all statistics which are not real 94 00:04:30,670 --> 00:04:28,010 statistics coincidences which are 95 00:04:33,460 --> 00:04:30,680 presented as more than you know just 96 00:04:36,070 --> 00:04:33,470 pure chance that kind of thing and I 97 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:36,080 suppose that led me on to reading Bengal 98 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:38,690 degas article articles in column i 99 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:40,370 should say in the guardian the bad 100 00:04:48,250 --> 00:04:44,210 science and I think you know after that 101 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:48,260 I it was pretty obvious to me that I was 102 00:04:53,010 --> 00:04:50,930 interested in that side of things but I 103 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:53,020 only really understood that the word 104 00:04:59,980 --> 00:04:56,930 skepticism existed in terms of this kind 105 00:05:01,570 --> 00:04:59,990 of thing when i was offered somebody at 106 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:01,580 work said to me i should listen to the 107 00:05:05,050 --> 00:05:03,410 skeptics guide to the universe on the 108 00:05:06,460 --> 00:05:05,060 ipod because i was listening to 109 00:05:07,930 --> 00:05:06,470 astronomy cast already as a 110 00:05:09,969 --> 00:05:07,940 recommendation from this guy and I 111 00:05:11,830 --> 00:05:09,979 really enjoyed that and he said I should 112 00:05:12,940 --> 00:05:11,840 have listened to a she you so I started 113 00:05:14,830 --> 00:05:12,950 listening to it and I was like all right 114 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:14,840 okay that's what I am I'm one of those 115 00:05:19,510 --> 00:05:16,970 yeah I know labels aren't a good thing 116 00:05:22,570 --> 00:05:19,520 but I think on the other hand they can 117 00:05:23,980 --> 00:05:22,580 be because it's just a short way of 118 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:23,990 explaining what you are to somebody 119 00:05:27,700 --> 00:05:25,850 limited amount time when you're out 120 00:05:30,070 --> 00:05:27,710 there talk to people I suppose that 121 00:05:32,260 --> 00:05:30,080 makes things easier sometimes you are 122 00:05:34,450 --> 00:05:32,270 not only involved in the Greater 123 00:05:36,820 --> 00:05:34,460 Manchester skeptics you are a member of 124 00:05:40,300 --> 00:05:36,830 a fantastic group called ladies who do 125 00:05:43,060 --> 00:05:40,310 skepticism can you tell us about that yo 126 00:05:44,710 --> 00:05:43,070 and actually this Kim bout was kind of a 127 00:05:46,300 --> 00:05:44,720 joint venture between Greater Manchester 128 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:46,310 skeptics and also the Merseyside 129 00:05:50,969 --> 00:05:49,370 skeptics ah we have we have links with 130 00:05:54,580 --> 00:05:50,979 them because obviously we're very close 131 00:05:57,190 --> 00:05:54,590 geographically Oh are they it's a 132 00:05:58,960 --> 00:05:57,200 diffusing well yeah I am I'm really bad 133 00:06:01,150 --> 00:05:58,970 at actual distance cuz I don't drive got 134 00:06:03,580 --> 00:06:01,160 colors at the bicycle no I would never 135 00:06:06,730 --> 00:06:03,590 cycle there but it takes it takes less 136 00:06:09,250 --> 00:06:06,740 than an hour on the train ah ok so from 137 00:06:10,540 --> 00:06:09,260 city to city so I basically go to pretty 138 00:06:11,940 --> 00:06:10,550 much all of their skeptic 139 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:11,950 some pub meats and things like that and 140 00:06:16,870 --> 00:06:14,450 you know I listen to sketch it skeptical 141 00:06:18,460 --> 00:06:16,880 okay so I got to know the guys after 142 00:06:21,730 --> 00:06:18,470 that after going on to the meat and 143 00:06:23,110 --> 00:06:21,740 after talking with them and you know 144 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:23,120 also having the Greater Manchester 145 00:06:28,060 --> 00:06:25,490 skeptics board meetings we talked quite 146 00:06:31,210 --> 00:06:28,070 a lot about the need for more balance in 147 00:06:33,550 --> 00:06:31,220 the skeptics and the pub events and so 148 00:06:34,690 --> 00:06:33,560 that was the kind of the push but it's I 149 00:06:36,850 --> 00:06:34,700 wouldn't say it's the it's the only 150 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:36,860 reason but that was the push that they 151 00:06:41,950 --> 00:06:38,570 kind of made us actually do something 152 00:06:45,010 --> 00:06:41,960 about it so at the moment I'm doing 153 00:06:46,630 --> 00:06:45,020 meetups both in liverpool on behalf of 154 00:06:48,070 --> 00:06:46,640 my side skeptics and in manchester on 155 00:06:49,780 --> 00:06:48,080 behalf of Greater Manchester skeptics 156 00:06:53,590 --> 00:06:49,790 and then there's a few other groups who 157 00:06:55,780 --> 00:06:53,600 are doing them separately also Haley 158 00:06:56,770 --> 00:06:55,790 Stevens who is a part of the bath 159 00:06:58,750 --> 00:06:56,780 skeptics and righteous indignation 160 00:07:00,910 --> 00:06:58,760 podcast she's hopefully going to be 161 00:07:02,770 --> 00:07:00,920 having a meet up there soon and also 162 00:07:04,750 --> 00:07:02,780 Edinburgh and Newcastle of both spoken 163 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:04,760 to me about doing them there of course 164 00:07:11,740 --> 00:07:08,570 and then further afield so it's it just 165 00:07:13,090 --> 00:07:11,750 started off as me Smee saying you know 166 00:07:15,550 --> 00:07:13,100 there's not very many women here which 167 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:15,560 after going online it seems it's a 168 00:07:19,990 --> 00:07:18,050 common complaint you see people talking 169 00:07:21,850 --> 00:07:20,000 about it all over the place on on the 170 00:07:24,550 --> 00:07:21,860 internet about that women who are 171 00:07:26,530 --> 00:07:24,560 involved in skepticism what makes the 172 00:07:28,900 --> 00:07:26,540 gatherings and focus different from say 173 00:07:30,850 --> 00:07:28,910 skeptics in the pub you have all these 174 00:07:34,060 --> 00:07:30,860 groups already happening why this 175 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:34,070 particular focus well okay so the first 176 00:07:38,110 --> 00:07:36,770 thing I'd say is that I go to greater 177 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:38,120 manchester skeptics and pull back your 178 00:07:42,850 --> 00:07:39,650 salad for skeptics in the pub and I 179 00:07:45,130 --> 00:07:42,860 enjoy them I think the great but I also 180 00:07:48,700 --> 00:07:45,140 can't really get enough of this kind of 181 00:07:51,660 --> 00:07:48,710 thing that would be the first I thought 182 00:07:53,950 --> 00:07:51,670 I don't think it's in saturated yet so 183 00:07:55,780 --> 00:07:53,960 you know once a week isn't enough 184 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:55,790 between the great manchester socials and 185 00:07:58,900 --> 00:07:57,770 talks and the Merseyside ones that makes 186 00:08:02,440 --> 00:07:58,910 it about once a week and obviously 187 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:02,450 that's not enough so no but I mean 188 00:08:09,490 --> 00:08:04,490 really that the real reason is that I 189 00:08:12,910 --> 00:08:09,500 don't think that a pub is is the is the 190 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:12,920 only place where people are going to 191 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:15,170 want to meet so you know these people 192 00:08:17,710 --> 00:08:16,490 shouldn't be ruled out just because they 193 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:17,720 don't want to meet in a pub and I know 194 00:08:22,450 --> 00:08:20,690 that you have other events in in you 195 00:08:23,770 --> 00:08:22,460 know the I think in the states i think 196 00:08:24,159 --> 00:08:23,780 they've got events which are more kind 197 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:24,169 of family 198 00:08:29,140 --> 00:08:26,210 warranted as well oh yeah I've done 199 00:08:32,529 --> 00:08:29,150 skeptics in the park for example yeah 200 00:08:34,089 --> 00:08:32,539 exactly so we were interested both of 201 00:08:37,149 --> 00:08:34,099 our groups were interested in doing 202 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:37,159 something like that as well so first of 203 00:08:42,009 --> 00:08:40,250 all yeah i think that the you're kind of 204 00:08:44,199 --> 00:08:42,019 missing a group of people if your ass in 205 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:44,209 the pool because not only i mean some of 206 00:08:47,620 --> 00:08:46,010 the men who come along have said you 207 00:08:49,660 --> 00:08:47,630 know oh well first of all please don't 208 00:08:51,250 --> 00:08:49,670 make it too late because you know I've 209 00:08:53,110 --> 00:08:51,260 got a family to get home to kind of 210 00:08:54,490 --> 00:08:53,120 thing or you know I want to be able to 211 00:08:55,930 --> 00:08:54,500 come in and have a drink with you all 212 00:08:58,269 --> 00:08:55,940 and have a chat and then go home and put 213 00:08:59,860 --> 00:08:58,279 my kids to bed or you know I don't wanna 214 00:09:02,920 --> 00:08:59,870 be home to Lakes because we have to get 215 00:09:04,389 --> 00:09:02,930 up for work or whatever and and then I 216 00:09:08,590 --> 00:09:04,399 thought well what are what are their 217 00:09:10,569 --> 00:09:08,600 wives doing you know and you know why 218 00:09:13,449 --> 00:09:10,579 why are the wives staying at home while 219 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:13,459 they're coming out doing that and you 220 00:09:19,150 --> 00:09:16,010 can't change people you can't change 221 00:09:20,949 --> 00:09:19,160 traditions as much as I think that there 222 00:09:23,439 --> 00:09:20,959 should be an alternate you know kind of 223 00:09:24,939 --> 00:09:23,449 okay will you go out one week and you 224 00:09:27,250 --> 00:09:24,949 know your wife goes out the next week 225 00:09:29,110 --> 00:09:27,260 people just have their little patterns 226 00:09:31,060 --> 00:09:29,120 and they don't want to change them so 227 00:09:32,650 --> 00:09:31,070 what you can do is you can change the 228 00:09:37,150 --> 00:09:32,660 environment and you can change the time 229 00:09:38,380 --> 00:09:37,160 and place and you can just try and try 230 00:09:40,900 --> 00:09:38,390 and get in touch with a different group 231 00:09:43,329 --> 00:09:40,910 of people and I feel like it's 232 00:09:44,740 --> 00:09:43,339 definitely happened already not only for 233 00:09:48,610 --> 00:09:44,750 that reason also for other reasons as a 234 00:09:51,639 --> 00:09:48,620 as a regular ladies who'd escaped system 235 00:09:53,410 --> 00:09:51,649 now Emma who comes along to our meetups 236 00:09:56,139 --> 00:09:53,420 and she also now comes along to pretty 237 00:09:58,480 --> 00:09:56,149 much every manchester meet up and the 238 00:10:00,009 --> 00:09:58,490 skeptics in the pub and she hadn't 239 00:10:02,980 --> 00:10:00,019 wanted to come to the skeptics in the 240 00:10:04,389 --> 00:10:02,990 pub she'd felt a little bit intimidated 241 00:10:06,009 --> 00:10:04,399 on and if that's the right word really 242 00:10:08,319 --> 00:10:06,019 and when you meet her she's an 243 00:10:09,790 --> 00:10:08,329 incredibly confident woman so it's not 244 00:10:11,319 --> 00:10:09,800 saying that you know these women aren't 245 00:10:14,170 --> 00:10:11,329 confident she's a very confident woman 246 00:10:16,420 --> 00:10:14,180 she's very well-spoken she's she has no 247 00:10:17,889 --> 00:10:16,430 problem speaking her mind but somehow 248 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:17,899 she just felt a little bit put off 249 00:10:21,129 --> 00:10:19,370 coming to the skeptics in the pub meets 250 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:21,139 so she came along to ladies you to 251 00:10:26,309 --> 00:10:22,730 skepticism and ash comes along for the 252 00:10:29,220 --> 00:10:26,319 others too I think that that probably 253 00:10:31,750 --> 00:10:29,230 speaks quite a lot for the event itself 254 00:10:32,889 --> 00:10:31,760 it's engaging group of people who 255 00:10:35,650 --> 00:10:32,899 wouldn't necessarily be engaged 256 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:35,660 otherwise it's fostering a a whole 257 00:10:40,540 --> 00:10:39,290 you need a demographic really yeah and 258 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:40,550 of course there's many other things 259 00:10:47,140 --> 00:10:44,210 which I've realized since then but you 260 00:10:49,990 --> 00:10:47,150 know the reason and the original idea 261 00:10:51,340 --> 00:10:50,000 behind it and how it started out you 262 00:10:54,190 --> 00:10:51,350 know that's one thing and what I'm 263 00:10:56,230 --> 00:10:54,200 learning now about the benefits is you 264 00:10:58,300 --> 00:10:56,240 know that's another thing too where 265 00:11:02,230 --> 00:10:58,310 would you be likely to meet is it more 266 00:11:05,770 --> 00:11:02,240 of a cafe situation a library and we 267 00:11:07,510 --> 00:11:05,780 started doing it in a cafe and that went 268 00:11:10,900 --> 00:11:07,520 down quite well because people didn't 269 00:11:12,370 --> 00:11:10,910 have to turn up exactly on time and but 270 00:11:13,930 --> 00:11:12,380 yeah and then you know people came in 271 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:13,940 drips and drabs obviously they saw that 272 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:15,050 it was a group of women sitting together 273 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:16,490 it's pretty clear after a while that 274 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:18,410 people come in and as soon as they came 275 00:11:21,910 --> 00:11:20,330 in you know I took I took along some 276 00:11:24,730 --> 00:11:21,920 magazines and things with me just as i 277 00:11:27,610 --> 00:11:24,740 get i get a subscription at my parents 278 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:27,620 subscriber tyrion on I it's a pretty 279 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:29,570 good magazine I enjoy it on the whole 280 00:11:33,670 --> 00:11:31,490 but their health section is absolutely 281 00:11:35,590 --> 00:11:33,680 appalling so I took I took some of those 282 00:11:37,540 --> 00:11:35,600 when they just to kind of spark some 283 00:11:39,790 --> 00:11:37,550 conversation in case it was necessary 284 00:11:42,250 --> 00:11:39,800 but it really wasn't necessary it turns 285 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:42,260 out that the women who came along were 286 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:44,930 kind of just ready to go ready to 287 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:46,370 complain about these things with it and 288 00:11:51,070 --> 00:11:49,490 see all the time and we I originally put 289 00:11:52,630 --> 00:11:51,080 it down as for two hours but you know 290 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:52,640 they kicked us out that cafe and we were 291 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:54,410 stood talking on the on the pavement 292 00:12:00,100 --> 00:11:57,730 outside before we made our always home 293 00:12:02,380 --> 00:12:00,110 but yeah this the next one we're doing 294 00:12:04,780 --> 00:12:02,390 is is kind of a lunch we don't have any 295 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:04,790 set agenda we don't have any anything 296 00:12:08,290 --> 00:12:07,130 particular so why not you know making a 297 00:12:09,970 --> 00:12:08,300 little bit of a change once in a while 298 00:12:11,620 --> 00:12:09,980 and you'll see what people like what 299 00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:11,630 people don't like and just give it a go 300 00:12:15,070 --> 00:12:13,760 there's no no pressure at all it's like 301 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:15,080 I said otherwise it's just me sitting 302 00:12:19,810 --> 00:12:17,890 there eating nice things that's fine I 303 00:12:22,030 --> 00:12:19,820 have heard that you're planning on 304 00:12:25,150 --> 00:12:22,040 having a meetup at teammate do to Heidi 305 00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:25,160 Anderson of the sheath or com site what 306 00:12:28,990 --> 00:12:26,510 are some of the goals for that for 307 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:29,000 example Heidi Anderson getting in 308 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:31,370 contact with me and also yourself Kylie 309 00:12:41,020 --> 00:12:37,130 contacting me were two huge boost to to 310 00:12:43,510 --> 00:12:41,030 me continuing this I mean it honestly 311 00:12:46,150 --> 00:12:43,520 it's it's so it's so great because you 312 00:12:48,190 --> 00:12:46,160 know I'd when I first googled you know 313 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:48,200 kind of around to see about women and 314 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:49,490 skip seas mala rest of it 315 00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:51,770 course actually your blog was one of the 316 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:55,040 first ones i came across Wow and I 317 00:12:57,820 --> 00:12:56,330 started to read it I was like this is 318 00:12:59,560 --> 00:12:57,830 brilliant because I'm interested not 319 00:13:01,810 --> 00:12:59,570 only women i'm also interested in in 320 00:13:03,639 --> 00:13:01,820 what kids are taught I think it's really 321 00:13:05,500 --> 00:13:03,649 important but you know I don't want to 322 00:13:08,980 --> 00:13:05,510 come across in anyways cultish that's 323 00:13:11,980 --> 00:13:08,990 always a danger oh sure does it yeah and 324 00:13:13,660 --> 00:13:11,990 I thought it was great and then and also 325 00:13:15,220 --> 00:13:13,670 she thought I was reading she thought 326 00:13:17,699 --> 00:13:15,230 and all the rest of it and so when the 327 00:13:19,660 --> 00:13:17,709 two of you contacted me I know it's like 328 00:13:20,769 --> 00:13:19,670 you're like you know I think I think 329 00:13:22,060 --> 00:13:20,779 you're it's MIT like you know I have 330 00:13:28,210 --> 00:13:22,070 this block by the way and I was like 331 00:13:30,850 --> 00:13:28,220 yeah I know everything I mean half the 332 00:13:32,199 --> 00:13:30,860 time I surprised myself when I look at 333 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:32,209 how many comments there might be for a 334 00:13:36,490 --> 00:13:34,130 blog post my god o people like that 335 00:13:38,170 --> 00:13:36,500 that's lovely and more often than not I 336 00:13:39,790 --> 00:13:38,180 think they're usually just coming over 337 00:13:43,389 --> 00:13:39,800 to check out the lyrics of a Tim Minchin 338 00:13:46,449 --> 00:13:43,399 song and I go oh nevermind yeah but I 339 00:13:49,570 --> 00:13:46,459 think I think that for example the the 340 00:13:51,340 --> 00:13:49,580 she thought blog and it certainly gave 341 00:13:54,730 --> 00:13:51,350 me food for thought because it seemed to 342 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:54,740 totally fit in with the kind of ideas 343 00:14:00,610 --> 00:13:56,450 that I had which is that I'm not 344 00:14:03,790 --> 00:14:00,620 interested in skepticism for celebrity 345 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:03,800 or for any any of those kind things like 346 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:06,050 what I'm interested in is real women 347 00:14:10,750 --> 00:14:08,570 having their say about things which 348 00:14:12,610 --> 00:14:10,760 they're interested in and that that 349 00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:12,620 they're skeptical about giving their 350 00:14:17,350 --> 00:14:14,000 opinions and just making it really 351 00:14:21,190 --> 00:14:17,360 normal to do that and I like she thought 352 00:14:24,250 --> 00:14:21,200 because its submission based oh yeah I I 353 00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:24,260 think that's fantastic and actually I 354 00:14:29,889 --> 00:14:26,240 did I are talking about doing some kind 355 00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:29,899 of short 15-minute segment kind of add 356 00:14:33,639 --> 00:14:31,910 on podcast where people can submit 357 00:14:35,620 --> 00:14:33,649 interviews women can submit interviews 358 00:14:36,850 --> 00:14:35,630 whether either you know people who are 359 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:36,860 well-known are people who are less well 360 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:39,290 known about their ideas Getz's and 361 00:14:43,630 --> 00:14:41,050 pseudoscience any of that kind of thing 362 00:14:47,380 --> 00:14:43,640 she contacted me and asked me you know 363 00:14:48,699 --> 00:14:47,390 if they could go ahead and do an event 364 00:14:52,269 --> 00:14:48,709 there if they could use the up the 365 00:14:53,860 --> 00:14:52,279 artwork which basically a guy Andrew 366 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:53,870 Taylor from Greater Manchester skeptics 367 00:14:58,180 --> 00:14:56,570 he did the artwork for is it's just he's 368 00:15:00,910 --> 00:14:58,190 got our website and stuff it's it's 369 00:15:02,620 --> 00:15:00,920 pretty nice and i like his cartoon so i 370 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:02,630 asked him if he'd do a couple of things 371 00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:03,050 for 372 00:15:07,780 --> 00:15:04,880 so they're using that and I just think 373 00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:07,790 it's nice to have a basis for everything 374 00:15:11,650 --> 00:15:09,680 where you know we have with it's not 375 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:11,660 it's a blog at the moment it's not ideal 376 00:15:15,070 --> 00:15:13,610 it's not supposed to be a blog it's 377 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:15,080 supposed to be a website but that was 378 00:15:18,639 --> 00:15:16,970 the fastest way I could set it up just 379 00:15:20,829 --> 00:15:18,649 to put any event that happens anywhere 380 00:15:22,630 --> 00:15:20,839 in the world to advertise it there if 381 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:22,640 people have anything else they want to I 382 00:15:27,130 --> 00:15:25,250 can put it up as well you know it wasn't 383 00:15:31,620 --> 00:15:27,140 it wasn't about me it was about 384 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:31,630 advertising stuff and so I think I think 385 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:34,130 if ladies who dis caps ism is at tom a 386 00:15:37,750 --> 00:15:36,050 like that that when I got the email 387 00:15:40,569 --> 00:15:37,760 about it I was just like wow that's 388 00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:40,579 pretty much like made all of this just 389 00:15:45,190 --> 00:15:42,800 worth any of the effort which you know 390 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:45,200 it's not a lot of effort to get to get 391 00:15:49,300 --> 00:15:47,410 women together when they want to talk 392 00:15:51,759 --> 00:15:49,310 what do you think are the greatest 393 00:15:53,530 --> 00:15:51,769 challenges that face women then in terms 394 00:15:56,530 --> 00:15:53,540 of paranormal and pseudo scientific 395 00:15:59,050 --> 00:15:56,540 claims I think the main things that come 396 00:16:02,680 --> 00:15:59,060 up at the Uglies who discuss the 397 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:02,690 meetings okay I don't know if wherever 398 00:16:06,819 --> 00:16:04,490 your lessons are and yourself if you get 399 00:16:10,090 --> 00:16:06,829 this advert but we have an advert which 400 00:16:12,910 --> 00:16:10,100 basically is saying to you that if you 401 00:16:15,010 --> 00:16:12,920 use this product then seventy-eight 402 00:16:17,470 --> 00:16:15,020 percent or whatever it is of women say 403 00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:17,480 that their that their armpits felt 404 00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:20,510 sexier or look sexier or something and I 405 00:16:25,980 --> 00:16:23,510 I feel like they're inventing things for 406 00:16:28,329 --> 00:16:25,990 us to worry about and inventing 407 00:16:30,069 --> 00:16:28,339 inventing your answers were there was 408 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:30,079 never a question until you asked the 409 00:16:33,550 --> 00:16:31,850 question and then of course if you ask 410 00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:33,560 that if you ask if I asked you right 411 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:35,510 which would you prefer which your would 412 00:16:41,470 --> 00:16:37,250 you prefer your armpit to look sexy or 413 00:16:42,970 --> 00:16:41,480 not to look sexy I mean I I was so sorry 414 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:42,980 okay what what's your answer on that one 415 00:16:47,530 --> 00:16:45,410 well doesn't everyone want to consider 416 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:47,540 themselves to be sexy and alluring and 417 00:16:53,439 --> 00:16:49,490 attractive and so forth so yeah exactly 418 00:16:55,210 --> 00:16:53,449 so so what's wrong with those with the 419 00:16:56,650 --> 00:16:55,220 percentage of women who said no that's 420 00:16:58,900 --> 00:16:56,660 what I was no that's my first problem 421 00:17:01,150 --> 00:16:58,910 like no I don't want my armpits look 422 00:17:02,980 --> 00:17:01,160 sexier unless you know it was kind of to 423 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:02,990 make a point that you know maybe they 424 00:17:06,159 --> 00:17:04,610 were maybe they were skeptics maybe they 425 00:17:08,590 --> 00:17:06,169 didn't want to be interviewed about how 426 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:08,600 sexy their armpits where I think that 427 00:17:11,710 --> 00:17:10,010 was one of the ones that came up there 428 00:17:15,069 --> 00:17:11,720 we were just like what cuz you got the 429 00:17:15,699 --> 00:17:15,079 upper and things might come there's a 430 00:17:20,980 --> 00:17:15,709 there's an hour 431 00:17:23,559 --> 00:17:20,990 for a facial moisturizer which basically 432 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:23,569 suggests that it can defer hat with 433 00:17:28,149 --> 00:17:25,850 Halle Berry advertising it and she's 434 00:17:30,669 --> 00:17:28,159 saying you know I've ditched my previous 435 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:30,679 moisturizer and now I come back seven 436 00:17:36,789 --> 00:17:34,850 ways of aging and you know I I didn't 437 00:17:38,909 --> 00:17:36,799 know that there were seven I didn't know 438 00:17:41,260 --> 00:17:38,919 there was a sweet number to start with 439 00:17:43,870 --> 00:17:41,270 obviously until the cream came out 440 00:17:45,639 --> 00:17:43,880 nobody else did either but I'm wondering 441 00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:45,649 next year how many is going to be and 442 00:17:51,580 --> 00:17:48,710 how often I have to eat green to keep up 443 00:17:53,769 --> 00:17:51,590 with them yes so yeah I think things 444 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:53,779 like that come up also you know 445 00:17:58,810 --> 00:17:55,370 something which comes up quite a lot in 446 00:18:00,930 --> 00:17:58,820 skepticism which is religion and we 447 00:18:03,970 --> 00:18:00,940 talked about it but not in the sense of 448 00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:03,980 you know i'm atheist i'm agnostic what 449 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:05,510 are you we talked about it more in the 450 00:18:11,710 --> 00:18:08,570 sense of how do you feel talking with 451 00:18:14,380 --> 00:18:11,720 other people about religion and it seems 452 00:18:17,919 --> 00:18:14,390 that when I talk to people at skeptics 453 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:17,929 in the pub there are many fewer people 454 00:18:22,149 --> 00:18:19,610 who have a problem just saying outright 455 00:18:24,130 --> 00:18:22,159 either an atheist or agnostic or 456 00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:24,140 discussing with people right religion in 457 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:27,440 general at the lazy skepticism meet up 458 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:29,090 certainly people feel like it should be 459 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:32,210 something which is less less of an 460 00:18:36,820 --> 00:18:35,450 important matter in skepticism so that 461 00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:36,830 was interesting because I haven't come 462 00:18:42,730 --> 00:18:40,370 across that before and just generally 463 00:18:44,289 --> 00:18:42,740 how can you you know what what it's like 464 00:18:45,940 --> 00:18:44,299 everyday how your friends see you if 465 00:18:48,220 --> 00:18:45,950 they if they know that you're a skeptic 466 00:18:49,210 --> 00:18:48,230 not necessarily the term skeptic but you 467 00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:49,220 know if you're if they're eating the 468 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:51,110 horoscope and and they say oh you know 469 00:18:54,010 --> 00:18:52,730 this is going to happen what will start 470 00:18:59,549 --> 00:18:54,020 signing you and you kind of begrudgingly 471 00:19:02,169 --> 00:18:59,559 say fer go you know like shut up really 472 00:19:03,610 --> 00:19:02,179 you know how do we feel about those kind 473 00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:03,620 of situations and how do we feel about 474 00:19:08,139 --> 00:19:05,600 you know kind of being the one that was 475 00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:08,149 spoiled everyone's fun you know you do 476 00:19:13,870 --> 00:19:11,840 feel like that but it's not fun to me so 477 00:19:17,289 --> 00:19:13,880 it's not spoiling any fun because it's 478 00:19:19,450 --> 00:19:17,299 not fun it's just ridiculous and I 479 00:19:21,490 --> 00:19:19,460 suppose that kind of thing we talked 480 00:19:24,220 --> 00:19:21,500 about it's not so much about at least 481 00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:24,230 for the very first one ones that we've 482 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:26,240 had because of course I do i do both of 483 00:19:31,049 --> 00:19:27,610 them we've only had a couple of me 484 00:19:32,940 --> 00:19:31,059 so far but at least the beginning was 485 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:32,950 mainly talked about it it's kind of 486 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:35,410 everyday life being skeptical being a 487 00:19:41,010 --> 00:19:38,890 woman in the workplace with men what 488 00:19:43,740 --> 00:19:41,020 that means you know I'm for example in 489 00:19:45,150 --> 00:19:43,750 relationships you know just normal 490 00:19:46,980 --> 00:19:45,160 things that we will talk about except 491 00:19:49,470 --> 00:19:46,990 with kind of a skeptical slant I suppose 492 00:19:51,539 --> 00:19:49,480 there has been some debate in regards to 493 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:51,549 whether or not it's feminists to be a 494 00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:53,530 skeptic where the feminist tend towards 495 00:19:58,440 --> 00:19:55,600 being anti science you yourself that you 496 00:20:00,360 --> 00:19:58,450 have a PhD in genetics is it that big an 497 00:20:04,220 --> 00:20:00,370 issue in your opinion in regards to 498 00:20:06,930 --> 00:20:04,230 whether or not women and science meet um 499 00:20:09,150 --> 00:20:06,940 this this is another difficult huh I 500 00:20:12,630 --> 00:20:09,160 think that I think that actually 501 00:20:15,630 --> 00:20:12,640 skepticism can really help feminism in a 502 00:20:18,060 --> 00:20:15,640 way I don't think that you have to be a 503 00:20:19,260 --> 00:20:18,070 feminist to be a skeptic I don't think 504 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:19,270 you have to be a skeptic to be a 505 00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:22,090 feminist I think that feminism can 506 00:20:26,250 --> 00:20:24,400 definitely be helped by skepticism I 507 00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:26,260 mean for example what we're talking 508 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:29,049 about about these face creams about you 509 00:20:33,180 --> 00:20:31,210 know your armpits looking sexier I mean 510 00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:33,190 how many of these things actually exist 511 00:20:37,650 --> 00:20:34,720 in the real world and how do they 512 00:20:39,060 --> 00:20:37,660 contribute to to how women are seen in 513 00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:39,070 the world when you have these efforts 514 00:20:43,980 --> 00:20:41,200 shown at you constantly and if 515 00:20:46,830 --> 00:20:43,990 skepticism can help to get rid of some 516 00:20:48,090 --> 00:20:46,840 of this rubbish you know then surely 517 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:48,100 that can only help on the other side 518 00:20:53,810 --> 00:20:50,410 certainly science looking at Sciences 519 00:20:57,330 --> 00:20:53,820 separately science will hopefully 520 00:20:58,950 --> 00:20:57,340 idealistically uncover truth that's how 521 00:21:01,680 --> 00:20:58,960 it's supposed to be I mean of course 522 00:21:04,350 --> 00:21:01,690 it's not always the case I I think 523 00:21:07,049 --> 00:21:04,360 personally I'm saying that scientists as 524 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:07,059 it as everybody every single one for 525 00:21:11,070 --> 00:21:08,530 them every single scientist saying that 526 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:11,080 they don't have a bias and that they 527 00:21:15,150 --> 00:21:12,970 always do things completely accurately 528 00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:15,160 and without judgment I'd say that is 529 00:21:20,970 --> 00:21:17,679 incorrect I think that the good ones do 530 00:21:24,630 --> 00:21:20,980 but you you know and the ones who aren't 531 00:21:26,580 --> 00:21:24,640 under pressure do pressure to to get 532 00:21:29,820 --> 00:21:26,590 things done under tie in the right time 533 00:21:31,770 --> 00:21:29,830 or kind of thing I think that science 534 00:21:34,770 --> 00:21:31,780 can uncover things which might make us 535 00:21:38,010 --> 00:21:34,780 feel uncomfortable about not only our 536 00:21:40,140 --> 00:21:38,020 sex but also our race and that kind of 537 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:40,150 thing but I think whether or not we 538 00:21:43,290 --> 00:21:41,410 should go into the 539 00:21:46,170 --> 00:21:43,300 is another discussion you know the 540 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:46,180 ethics of continuing research into 541 00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:47,650 difference between men and women or 542 00:21:51,930 --> 00:21:49,600 differences between the races all right 543 00:21:54,690 --> 00:21:51,940 kind of thing at the end of the day is 544 00:21:57,060 --> 00:21:54,700 its research its basic research and none 545 00:21:59,670 --> 00:21:57,070 of this is is supposed to be done with 546 00:22:03,330 --> 00:21:59,680 the aim of of trying to single out a 547 00:22:05,190 --> 00:22:03,340 group of people that's one side of it on 548 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:05,200 the other side of it you know science 549 00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:07,570 has been for a long time now 550 00:22:11,910 --> 00:22:09,760 predominantly male in terms of the 551 00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:11,920 research so I don't know how that alters 552 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:15,510 what's researched like that of course 553 00:22:20,310 --> 00:22:17,650 actually I've always been a little bit 554 00:22:21,900 --> 00:22:20,320 afraid of the word feminism but I don't 555 00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:21,910 think I'm actually afraid of feminism 556 00:22:26,220 --> 00:22:24,130 itself it's just that the connotations 557 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:26,230 it's hard growing up somehow it's always 558 00:22:31,290 --> 00:22:29,890 been seen to me as I'm sorry but 559 00:22:33,420 --> 00:22:31,300 completely wrong Louisville I've always 560 00:22:35,730 --> 00:22:33,430 thought it was something where you know 561 00:22:37,170 --> 00:22:35,740 women wanted to take over and be better 562 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:37,180 and all the rest of it and it's only 563 00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:39,970 really and you know having looked into 564 00:22:45,060 --> 00:22:42,400 the word and and what it means that it's 565 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:45,070 of course not a bell at all so I think 566 00:22:48,990 --> 00:22:46,930 it's something I've shied away from and 567 00:22:50,550 --> 00:22:49,000 therefore really not well not 568 00:22:52,050 --> 00:22:50,560 knowledgeable about it at all I would 569 00:22:55,470 --> 00:22:52,060 love to be more knowledgeable about it 570 00:22:58,190 --> 00:22:55,480 and but I know that there are there are 571 00:23:00,540 --> 00:22:58,200 plenty of skeptics who are feminists I 572 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:00,550 know there's a group which is we claim 573 00:23:06,630 --> 00:23:03,850 the pub which is made up of skeptics and 574 00:23:08,580 --> 00:23:06,640 non skeptics which is a feminist group 575 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:08,590 that meet up in the pub I think they 576 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:10,210 have a I think they have a wordpress 577 00:23:14,670 --> 00:23:11,530 page if you want to find more out about 578 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:14,680 that so what are some future goals what 579 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:16,210 do you think is the greatest need I 580 00:23:22,110 --> 00:23:19,330 think to be able to make it easier for 581 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:22,120 women to say I disagree with this 582 00:23:26,220 --> 00:23:24,490 meaning generally to other women not 583 00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:26,230 necessarily two men it's not about you 584 00:23:30,810 --> 00:23:28,720 know dividing sex is like a thing but a 585 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:30,820 thing about spoiling people's fund about 586 00:23:36,750 --> 00:23:33,610 horoscopes about vaccinations talking 587 00:23:38,310 --> 00:23:36,760 about vaccinations talking about face 588 00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:38,320 creams talking about horoscopes are 589 00:23:45,810 --> 00:23:40,960 about homeopathy about you should be 590 00:23:48,510 --> 00:23:45,820 able to have our say not be you know a 591 00:23:51,330 --> 00:23:48,520 podcast host or a blog writer but just 592 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:51,340 be a normal everyday woman who happens 593 00:23:54,340 --> 00:23:53,530 to not believe in these things to be 594 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:54,350 able to say these they 595 00:23:58,539 --> 00:23:56,450 comfortably and even if people don't 596 00:24:00,940 --> 00:23:58,549 accept them comfortably to know that we 597 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:00,950 have the backing of a network of people 598 00:24:06,310 --> 00:24:03,890 who feel the same way either online or 599 00:24:08,049 --> 00:24:06,320 socially locally that that would be a 600 00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:08,059 great thing for me it's okay to disagree 601 00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:10,400 with people and to say no I'm sorry but 602 00:24:14,110 --> 00:24:11,840 you know why are you even looking at 603 00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:14,120 this this is absolutely rubbish and you 604 00:24:17,529 --> 00:24:15,289 know in a polite way you don't have to 605 00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:17,539 be aggressive just standing up for 606 00:24:22,990 --> 00:24:20,480 yourself yeah exactly yeah and and that 607 00:24:25,210 --> 00:24:23,000 it's okay because you know you you have 608 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:25,220 other people that you maybe don't work 609 00:24:28,750 --> 00:24:27,650 with that you see another time that you 610 00:24:30,430 --> 00:24:28,760 know you can go back and go can you 611 00:24:32,230 --> 00:24:30,440 believe you know I have to I have to put 612 00:24:33,820 --> 00:24:32,240 up with this person at work who who 613 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:33,830 brings in a crystal every day and puts 614 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:34,850 it you know at the side of the bench 615 00:24:39,970 --> 00:24:37,250 that kind of thing that would be nice 616 00:24:42,130 --> 00:24:39,980 and generally just and you know that 617 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:42,140 that's kind of the lady thing but the 618 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:44,690 other thing is to have a really nice 619 00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:47,330 community and I don't mean a community 620 00:24:50,799 --> 00:24:48,710 who goes out gets drunk all the time 621 00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:50,809 skeptical community does that I mean a 622 00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:53,510 community were you know if I want to 623 00:25:00,130 --> 00:24:57,679 know in my local area which schools have 624 00:25:02,799 --> 00:25:00,140 teachers who are you know trying to 625 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:02,809 trans to creationism theology in the 626 00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:04,970 science room or you know which books to 627 00:25:07,210 --> 00:25:06,320 buy because some of them are you going 628 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:07,220 the bookshop and they look really 629 00:25:12,549 --> 00:25:09,650 harmless and they look great oh gosh 630 00:25:13,930 --> 00:25:12,559 then yeah yeah and I want to know those 631 00:25:15,130 --> 00:25:13,940 things so the only way you can know this 632 00:25:18,460 --> 00:25:15,140 thing's is by talking to other people 633 00:25:20,649 --> 00:25:18,470 who have a similar and we think about 634 00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:20,659 this a similar way of living to you for 635 00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:22,640 example you know if I was a Christian or 636 00:25:26,380 --> 00:25:24,559 you know any any other kind of group I'd 637 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:26,390 have that support network of people that 638 00:25:29,409 --> 00:25:27,770 I could talk to and say right I need a 639 00:25:31,149 --> 00:25:29,419 book about this you know what if you got 640 00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:31,159 any advice what I need to go to a school 641 00:25:35,950 --> 00:25:33,440 work and I send their you know but as a 642 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:35,960 skeptic you know it's much looser than 643 00:25:38,980 --> 00:25:37,250 that at the moment and I think 644 00:25:41,230 --> 00:25:38,990 ultimately what would be great and I 645 00:25:43,090 --> 00:25:41,240 know they're both the most I skeptics 646 00:25:44,770 --> 00:25:43,100 Greater Manchester skeptics and pretty 647 00:25:46,060 --> 00:25:44,780 much all the skeptical boots i spoke to 648 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:46,070 agree that this this would be something 649 00:25:51,340 --> 00:25:48,530 which would be really nice to have so 650 00:25:54,130 --> 00:25:51,350 when that's what we hope so where can 651 00:25:56,159 --> 00:25:54,140 people go to find out more so ladies who 652 00:25:59,560 --> 00:25:56,169 dis gets ism we have currently a 653 00:26:02,310 --> 00:25:59,570 temporary website which is set up as a 654 00:26:05,919 --> 00:26:02,320 blog and that is skeptic ladies 655 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:05,929 wordpress com and we also have a group 656 00:26:13,930 --> 00:26:07,970 on facebook we've got a 657 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:13,940 like button so like us oh yeah and what 658 00:26:18,310 --> 00:26:15,530 and as I say you know you don't have to 659 00:26:22,050 --> 00:26:18,320 be a lady to like ladies who dis gets 660 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:22,060 ISM because you know what's not to like 661 00:26:26,650 --> 00:26:24,890 so we have we you find we've got a lot 662 00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:26,660 of support but that we've also got a 663 00:26:32,350 --> 00:26:29,600 group on the but basically I think that 664 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:32,360 if you can if anybody's interested it 665 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:33,650 doesn't matter where you are in the 666 00:26:37,630 --> 00:26:35,570 world in the country in the world 667 00:26:41,290 --> 00:26:37,640 doesn't matter if you write to us and 668 00:26:43,540 --> 00:26:41,300 it's skeptic ladies at gmail com we will 669 00:26:45,010 --> 00:26:43,550 try and find other people who want to 670 00:26:46,810 --> 00:26:45,020 meet up with you if you want to create 671 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:46,820 this network we will we will do the 672 00:26:51,370 --> 00:26:48,770 footwork for you and try and sort 673 00:26:53,950 --> 00:26:51,380 something out because you know we've 674 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:53,960 already got people in North America and 675 00:26:57,970 --> 00:26:55,250 we've got people over here in the UK 676 00:27:00,730 --> 00:26:57,980 several different places so i think it's 677 00:27:02,260 --> 00:27:00,740 it's starting up and if you'd like to 678 00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:02,270 make in your area then people can 679 00:27:07,900 --> 00:27:04,510 definitely write in and request it and 680 00:27:11,860 --> 00:27:07,910 oh yes and great amount of skeptics we 681 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:11,870 we have a blogspot com and we also have 682 00:27:17,890 --> 00:27:14,810 a Facebook page and we have a podcast 683 00:27:20,730 --> 00:27:17,900 which is called just skeptics which is 684 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:20,740 available on iTunes and soon hopefully 685 00:27:25,390 --> 00:27:23,570 getting in touch with ID Janice we might 686 00:27:28,750 --> 00:27:25,400 see even more of the ladies who do 687 00:27:30,730 --> 00:27:28,760 skepticism online absolutely it's like I 688 00:27:32,830 --> 00:27:30,740 said it's not about individuals it's 689 00:27:34,270 --> 00:27:32,840 about it's about groups so the more 690 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:34,280 people who get involved the better I'm 691 00:27:38,170 --> 00:27:36,410 really excited to talk to Heidi about it 692 00:27:43,060 --> 00:27:38,180 and really excited to talk to you about 693 00:27:44,140 --> 00:27:43,070 it today and it's just crazy it is I 694 00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:44,150 know it doesn't sound it because I'm 695 00:27:52,030 --> 00:27:46,910 quite a you know no peeking when I talk 696 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:52,040 but but inside it's just my British 697 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:54,170 reserve you know yeah that's okay hey 698 00:27:58,810 --> 00:27:56,690 this is what British reserve ends up 699 00:28:01,840 --> 00:27:58,820 creating or I'm all the more forthcoming 700 00:28:06,260 --> 00:28:01,850 you thank you very much for joining us 701 00:28:11,789 --> 00:28:09,180 for those attending tower mate there is 702 00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:11,799 a Facebook group now are called ladies 703 00:28:17,970 --> 00:28:15,120 who do skepticism and lunch at tam 8 704 00:28:20,669 --> 00:28:17,980 look for the host Heidi Anderson online 705 00:28:23,580 --> 00:28:20,679 and check out the updates at the ladies 706 00:28:25,950 --> 00:28:23,590 who do skepticism site in addition to 707 00:28:29,010 --> 00:28:25,960 that there is another don't miss event 708 00:28:32,490 --> 00:28:29,020 at teammate this year the skeptic ality 709 00:28:36,090 --> 00:28:32,500 speaking beyond BS is the amazing live 710 00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:36,100 podcast addition of several shows it 711 00:28:41,370 --> 00:28:38,710 will feature Desiree shell Robin 712 00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:41,380 McCarthy also known as sweepy Heidi 713 00:28:46,909 --> 00:28:44,110 Anderson Barbra Drescher and many 714 00:28:50,250 --> 00:28:46,919 celebrity guests that will be at 715 00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:50,260 nine-thirty p.m. thursday july the 8th 716 00:28:55,350 --> 00:28:52,720 at the suite level of the south point 717 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:55,360 hotel and casino there's limited live 718 00:29:00,090 --> 00:28:57,610 seating so check out the facebook page 719 00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:00,100 for that as well and the she thought 720 00:29:06,270 --> 00:29:04,000 calm website in addition you can help a 721 00:29:08,340 --> 00:29:06,280 students get to the amazing meeting by 722 00:29:10,530 --> 00:29:08,350 checking out the she thought com site 723 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:10,540 there's still time to help several 724 00:29:14,669 --> 00:29:12,490 university students attend the meeting 725 00:29:17,430 --> 00:29:14,679 in order to learn more about science and 726 00:29:20,220 --> 00:29:17,440 skepticism check out the article written 727 00:29:22,110 --> 00:29:20,230 by Barbra Drescher and do donate in 728 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:22,120 order to help promote science for the 729 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:41,560 i shun the block not reporting for the 730 00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:43,610 skeptics I'm from the wilds of South 731 00:29:47,530 --> 00:29:45,710 Australia on hearing that Adelaide was 732 00:29:49,540 --> 00:29:47,540 to have it's very own body mind wallet 733 00:29:52,180 --> 00:29:49,550 festival I couldn't pass up an 734 00:29:53,650 --> 00:29:52,190 opportunity to attend so after putting 735 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:53,660 out a call to the South Australian 736 00:29:58,570 --> 00:29:56,690 skeptics via Twitter a ragtag bunch of 737 00:30:02,350 --> 00:29:58,580 skeptical investigators descended on a 738 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:02,360 delight own body mine psychic expo what 739 00:30:06,850 --> 00:30:03,890 follows is a discussion with these 740 00:30:10,570 --> 00:30:06,860 dedicated defenders of rationality many 741 00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:10,580 thanks to Ken Claire triline and petrea 742 00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:12,710 for taking time out of their weekend to 743 00:30:24,460 --> 00:30:15,200 attend and here's hoping you enjoy our 744 00:30:26,350 --> 00:30:24,470 visit to the body-mind psychic Expo okay 745 00:30:28,750 --> 00:30:26,360 here was Sean the blog night I'm sitting 746 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:28,760 in the grandstand at the alleged show 747 00:30:33,220 --> 00:30:31,010 grounds with a group of Adelaide 748 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:33,230 skeptics at scientific skeptics not 749 00:30:40,660 --> 00:30:37,370 climate skeptics we've just been to the 750 00:30:43,690 --> 00:30:40,670 expo what do we call this Expo psychic 751 00:30:47,950 --> 00:30:43,700 Expo body-mind psychic Expo 300 stalls 752 00:30:51,130 --> 00:30:47,960 of absolute crap and yes oh we've all 753 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:51,140 paid twelve dollars to get in or outside 754 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:54,290 we've had our fill I'll introduce you to 755 00:30:57,130 --> 00:30:55,730 the rest of the skeptics sitting around 756 00:31:01,780 --> 00:30:57,140 me or I'll let them introduce this 757 00:31:06,130 --> 00:31:01,790 themselves so I'm patria I'm Claire I'm 758 00:31:07,810 --> 00:31:06,140 Jolene I'm Ken okay so we'll just go 759 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:07,820 around the circle with each picked up 760 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:10,010 some fliers of things that stood out to 761 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:13,250 us I think we've got quite a heavy sort 762 00:31:18,490 --> 00:31:15,650 of science background here so if I go in 763 00:31:20,230 --> 00:31:18,500 a circle again and and just let let me 764 00:31:22,180 --> 00:31:20,240 know what sort of science backgrounds 765 00:31:28,210 --> 00:31:22,190 you do have all educational backgrounds 766 00:31:29,710 --> 00:31:28,220 it okay Ken I'm a PhD in a what is it 767 00:31:33,070 --> 00:31:29,720 landscape scale ecology so in the 768 00:31:35,730 --> 00:31:33,080 biological sciences was raised by 769 00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:35,740 parents with a medical and geological 770 00:31:40,220 --> 00:31:37,049 science fact 771 00:31:44,269 --> 00:31:40,230 so clearly fairly much the monitoring 772 00:31:49,729 --> 00:31:44,279 birth ok going I'm currently completing 773 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:49,739 my PhD in molecular biology evident 774 00:31:54,409 --> 00:31:51,330 honours degree in environmental science 775 00:31:57,409 --> 00:31:54,419 from the University of La I'm not that 776 00:32:01,519 --> 00:31:57,419 was dentist at all I horticulturalist 777 00:32:04,369 --> 00:32:01,529 and I was raised by two nutjob Christian 778 00:32:09,379 --> 00:32:04,379 so I've done fairly well to be here 779 00:32:11,060 --> 00:32:09,389 today I've made it this far for the 780 00:32:16,759 --> 00:32:11,070 minister's daughter I nearly made it 781 00:32:18,769 --> 00:32:16,769 society and my cell phone probably the 782 00:32:20,479 --> 00:32:18,779 least qualified here no scientific 783 00:32:21,919 --> 00:32:20,489 background whatsoever I have an 784 00:32:23,749 --> 00:32:21,929 educational background the only 785 00:32:26,180 --> 00:32:23,759 qualification that matters is the 786 00:32:28,460 --> 00:32:26,190 initiative that's right and I don't 787 00:32:30,049 --> 00:32:28,470 think we need much of an education to 788 00:32:34,479 --> 00:32:30,059 figure out what what we're looking at 789 00:32:36,979 --> 00:32:34,489 here so I'll go first with something 790 00:32:39,139 --> 00:32:36,989 that I that stood adds me straight away 791 00:32:41,299 --> 00:32:39,149 which was ear candling if we've heard 792 00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:41,309 anything on Australian skeptics dr. a 793 00:32:45,859 --> 00:32:43,289 cheese done quite a few reports I've 794 00:32:49,519 --> 00:32:45,869 just noticed here we've got an ear 795 00:32:52,220 --> 00:32:49,529 candling training course if you want to 796 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:52,230 be a practitioner you get to do a one 797 00:32:56,269 --> 00:32:54,090 and a half day practical and theory 798 00:32:57,889 --> 00:32:56,279 workshop which will teach you the 799 00:33:00,259 --> 00:32:57,899 history of ear candling anatomy of the 800 00:33:01,599 --> 00:33:00,269 Occupational Health and Safety I would 801 00:33:04,129 --> 00:33:01,609 have thought you wouldn't want to stick 802 00:33:07,549 --> 00:33:04,139 handling your ear and won first place 803 00:33:09,049 --> 00:33:07,559 yeah the only difference between the 804 00:33:13,519 --> 00:33:09,059 practitioner training and personal and 805 00:33:16,190 --> 00:33:13,529 home is training is half a day oh and I 806 00:33:19,700 --> 00:33:16,200 predict presume some extra money 807 00:33:22,399 --> 00:33:19,710 somewhere in that so still going strong 808 00:33:23,619 --> 00:33:22,409 you candling in South Australia clear 809 00:33:27,580 --> 00:33:23,629 you've got something interesting there 810 00:33:29,690 --> 00:33:27,590 what I think was the vaguest 811 00:33:33,529 --> 00:33:29,700 practitioners we saw which were the 812 00:33:35,659 --> 00:33:33,539 sucio maha kiri which a non-profit 813 00:33:37,220 --> 00:33:35,669 nondenominational organization concerned 814 00:33:40,430 --> 00:33:37,230 with improving the quality of life for 815 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:40,440 all and basically they raised their 816 00:33:43,910 --> 00:33:42,450 hands give a purifying energy which 817 00:33:45,770 --> 00:33:43,920 commonly known as true light which 818 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:45,780 dissipates the effects of negativity in 819 00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:48,330 all aspects of your life but that also 820 00:33:55,910 --> 00:33:51,110 commonly known as basically all that 821 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:55,920 there are leaflet tells us and all that 822 00:33:59,870 --> 00:33:57,690 we could see were a bunch of people 823 00:34:03,230 --> 00:33:59,880 holding one hand up in front of people's 824 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:03,240 faces and the nose looking fairly 825 00:34:06,770 --> 00:34:05,250 serious and no further claims as to what 826 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:06,780 that was supposed to achieve a part that 827 00:34:13,340 --> 00:34:10,890 make you feel a little brighter note 828 00:34:16,340 --> 00:34:13,350 they haven't made any any real claims as 829 00:34:22,730 --> 00:34:16,350 to what this peacefully apart from maybe 830 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:22,740 make you feel very free there are no 831 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:24,690 places that wouldn't charge you for any 832 00:34:36,140 --> 00:34:28,170 of the services okay did somebody have 833 00:34:38,780 --> 00:34:36,150 an attunement p'tree okay the very first 834 00:34:40,820 --> 00:34:38,790 sentence in this pamphlet is attunement 835 00:34:42,860 --> 00:34:40,830 is a sacred healing art and spiritual 836 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:42,870 practice that increases one's experience 837 00:34:50,060 --> 00:34:46,890 of indwelling sauce none of us know what 838 00:34:52,220 --> 00:34:50,070 that means I haven't heard of indwelling 839 00:34:59,150 --> 00:34:52,230 sauce sauce has a cover less so that's 840 00:35:01,130 --> 00:34:59,160 obviously it's really over now yeah and 841 00:35:04,250 --> 00:35:01,140 then it continues with a whole lot of 842 00:35:06,590 --> 00:35:04,260 nonsense about spiritual connections I 843 00:35:09,050 --> 00:35:06,600 think these were the people who similar 844 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:09,060 to the the secure making curry people 845 00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:12,330 were holding hands I think they had but 846 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:14,160 it was a hand right hand in front of the 847 00:35:20,450 --> 00:35:15,570 forehead in one hand at the back i saw 848 00:35:23,210 --> 00:35:20,460 one person doing that so again it's not 849 00:35:25,250 --> 00:35:23,220 touching but doing something apparently 850 00:35:27,770 --> 00:35:25,260 it's clearly a different way of 851 00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:27,780 manipulating the body's energy fields 852 00:35:33,590 --> 00:35:31,680 and inverted commas hey maybe it's more 853 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:33,600 effective it makes jen's shoots from 854 00:35:37,580 --> 00:35:35,610 raking maybe everyone's bored of just 855 00:35:39,340 --> 00:35:37,590 the whole reiki non-touching therapy and 856 00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:39,350 they want other types of 857 00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:41,510 well I believe people of all's in that 858 00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:43,910 report that nine-year-old in the US but 859 00:35:48,220 --> 00:35:46,400 therapeutic touch doesn't work so 860 00:35:49,930 --> 00:35:48,230 they've lost faith in that sort of 861 00:35:55,180 --> 00:35:49,940 manipulator what if roots are now it's 862 00:35:58,300 --> 00:35:55,190 to him yes maybe okay yeah I thought 863 00:36:01,750 --> 00:35:58,310 that looked a bit like here maybe 864 00:36:04,180 --> 00:36:01,760 anglicized Reiki and then as opposed to 865 00:36:05,770 --> 00:36:04,190 you know going because i apparently rake 866 00:36:07,420 --> 00:36:05,780 is really expensive in there's lots of 867 00:36:09,580 --> 00:36:07,430 levels which sounds a lot to live like a 868 00:36:12,850 --> 00:36:09,590 martial art to me we're like to string 869 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:12,860 you out on on on belts and removing up a 870 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:16,490 pyramid scheme mmm yes i love how it 871 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:18,890 says in the brochure they're assuming a 872 00:36:23,830 --> 00:36:22,130 sacred not quite sure I sacred wat and 873 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:23,840 in another square it says achievement 874 00:36:30,460 --> 00:36:27,650 are gentle they look at the general 875 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:30,470 claims of the most of these make about 876 00:36:34,330 --> 00:36:32,570 what they can heal or what they deal 877 00:36:37,830 --> 00:36:34,340 with and it's things like headaches 878 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:37,840 migraines hey fevers do you suffer from 879 00:36:43,780 --> 00:36:42,050 back pain Thank You mr. fared very the 880 00:36:45,430 --> 00:36:43,790 claims are the ones which sort of 881 00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:45,440 pertained to really quite serious 882 00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:48,110 illnesses and diseases like I saw some 883 00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:50,480 fliers claiming to you know treat 884 00:36:54,460 --> 00:36:52,310 malignant achievements I know that's not 885 00:36:56,329 --> 00:36:54,470 right I think surely I mean you would 886 00:36:59,120 --> 00:36:56,339 hope that it's criminal claim 887 00:37:01,370 --> 00:36:59,130 that you can't just go around telling 888 00:37:03,259 --> 00:37:01,380 people you can feel their there are 889 00:37:05,450 --> 00:37:03,269 regulations about that which other which 890 00:37:07,549 --> 00:37:05,460 is one but I know their skill of a book 891 00:37:13,549 --> 00:37:07,559 a vibration machine was supposed to 892 00:37:16,190 --> 00:37:13,559 apparently work one moment and the life 893 00:37:19,069 --> 00:37:16,200 blood analysis came to identify their 894 00:37:20,749 --> 00:37:19,079 work will work out dodgy patties already 895 00:37:21,979 --> 00:37:20,759 but it was very it was very slick I 896 00:37:23,839 --> 00:37:21,989 thought that was probably one of the 897 00:37:27,049 --> 00:37:23,849 slickest production to divide blood 898 00:37:28,819 --> 00:37:27,059 analysis it does look very quiet look 899 00:37:34,729 --> 00:37:28,829 scientific illness they've got a 900 00:37:36,559 --> 00:37:34,739 microscope in their stalls and most of 901 00:37:39,859 --> 00:37:36,569 the places don't make specific claims 902 00:37:41,870 --> 00:37:39,869 about specific ailments like that they 903 00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:41,880 make general claims and they they start 904 00:37:46,940 --> 00:37:44,880 by saying like are you stressed or do 905 00:37:48,769 --> 00:37:46,950 you have some nonspecific pains and then 906 00:37:50,539 --> 00:37:48,779 do you feel then they they don't 907 00:37:52,819 --> 00:37:50,549 outright claim that they can cure it but 908 00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:52,829 they then say that for this this we've 909 00:37:57,410 --> 00:37:55,680 got this dirty so they imply so they're 910 00:37:59,299 --> 00:37:57,420 not making specific health claims or 911 00:38:02,479 --> 00:37:59,309 specific claims about being able to heal 912 00:38:05,749 --> 00:38:02,489 anything but all of the types of 913 00:38:08,660 --> 00:38:05,759 ailments they suggest that might be 914 00:38:10,219 --> 00:38:08,670 cured by their treatments are the kinds 915 00:38:12,349 --> 00:38:10,229 of things that it's well demonstrated 916 00:38:14,209 --> 00:38:12,359 that placebos are effective against sopa 917 00:38:19,489 --> 00:38:14,219 sleep placebo is reducing perception of 918 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:19,499 pain or of nausea so they all seem to be 919 00:38:24,410 --> 00:38:22,170 relying pretty heavily on that yeah and 920 00:38:27,620 --> 00:38:24,420 trying not to make claims that would 921 00:38:30,019 --> 00:38:27,630 open themselves the litigation basically 922 00:38:32,269 --> 00:38:30,029 it's a big room full of products that 923 00:38:35,329 --> 00:38:32,279 will hopefully make their money it was 924 00:38:42,130 --> 00:38:35,339 on the based on the [\h__\h] perfect it was 925 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:44,299 it doesn't actually say like one person 926 00:38:51,900 --> 00:38:46,490 but it was the grinnell blood morphology 927 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:51,910 pathak Center very sciency looking 928 00:38:58,330 --> 00:38:55,130 brochure pictures and everything that's 929 00:39:00,790 --> 00:38:58,340 weird here Timothy interest idea 930 00:39:01,870 --> 00:39:00,800 oxidative stress in less than 10 minutes 931 00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:01,880 learn if you are suffering from 932 00:39:05,770 --> 00:39:03,710 oxidative stress hormone or 933 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:05,780 neurotransmitter imbalance so I think 934 00:39:10,780 --> 00:39:08,210 the new road maybe is replacing the work 935 00:39:13,420 --> 00:39:10,790 quantum these days near this and neuro 936 00:39:15,790 --> 00:39:13,430 there so for mineral imbalance 937 00:39:20,950 --> 00:39:15,800 intestinal malabsorption digestive 938 00:39:22,350 --> 00:39:20,960 allergies like apple is evangelism it's 939 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:22,360 not that hard I've said it before 940 00:39:30,670 --> 00:39:25,850 metabolism disorders diabetes potential 941 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:30,680 depression so they'll show you it you're 942 00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:32,330 potentially depressed and that's a good 943 00:39:36,670 --> 00:39:34,640 way to make you just haven't quite sunk 944 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:36,680 to the lowest if they weren't worried oh 945 00:39:43,180 --> 00:39:39,050 you worry now they're claiming they can 946 00:39:47,350 --> 00:39:43,190 fix diabetes nonsense you're at risk of 947 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:47,360 the library machine claiming she helps 948 00:39:54,490 --> 00:39:51,770 me typing really vibration and she does 949 00:39:56,650 --> 00:39:54,500 that leave wow wow I don't I was going 950 00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:56,660 to have that work for the people 951 00:40:01,510 --> 00:39:58,490 listening to the audio the vibration 952 00:40:05,620 --> 00:40:01,520 machine it looked like he was standing 953 00:40:07,780 --> 00:40:05,630 holding some handlebars and your feet 954 00:40:10,630 --> 00:40:07,790 were vibrated very slightly up and down 955 00:40:13,210 --> 00:40:10,640 on a plate while you were in a squatting 956 00:40:15,700 --> 00:40:13,220 sort of semi squatting position the same 957 00:40:18,220 --> 00:40:15,710 sort of thing see advertised on Donald's 958 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:18,230 direct on TV yes you are take away your 959 00:40:27,190 --> 00:40:23,210 so much so say what is it vulnerability 960 00:40:30,580 --> 00:40:27,200 of potential diabetes is not everyone at 961 00:40:33,820 --> 00:40:30,590 risk that I'm 85 2 diabetes like they're 962 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:33,830 not is so you could essentially honestly 963 00:40:39,010 --> 00:40:35,690 say that you're at risk of diabetes to 964 00:40:42,250 --> 00:40:39,020 anyone and it would be inaccurate like 965 00:40:45,370 --> 00:40:42,260 a thomson you could be terribly for the 966 00:40:48,130 --> 00:40:45,380 next ten years and then get diving you 967 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:48,140 should pay us money to tell you that one 968 00:40:54,030 --> 00:40:51,770 of the the pictures they had on it's not 969 00:40:56,890 --> 00:40:54,040 on that pamphlet that on there there 970 00:40:59,680 --> 00:40:56,900 they had there was different pictures of 971 00:41:01,770 --> 00:40:59,690 the blood cells images to weed 972 00:41:03,940 --> 00:41:01,780 underneath a very simple word like 973 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:03,950 cancer or what some of the other that 974 00:41:10,450 --> 00:41:05,650 you were looking through them one was 975 00:41:12,430 --> 00:41:10,460 silicon silicon silicon see all these in 976 00:41:16,450 --> 00:41:12,440 the blood in it been a very quick 977 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:16,460 snapshot of your blood there are things 978 00:41:21,100 --> 00:41:18,650 that you just saw that anyone could 979 00:41:23,020 --> 00:41:21,110 believe that that is such a simple 980 00:41:25,330 --> 00:41:23,030 procedure but it's what people want to 981 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:25,340 hear but you can easily be given an 982 00:41:29,860 --> 00:41:28,130 answer for what's wrong with you rather 983 00:41:32,230 --> 00:41:29,870 than like if you see a real doctor 984 00:41:34,060 --> 00:41:32,240 they'll be honest and they'll say in a 985 00:41:37,420 --> 00:41:34,070 lot of cases this is what we think it is 986 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:37,430 we're not certain whereas these live 987 00:41:40,990 --> 00:41:39,170 flat analysis people will just tell you 988 00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:41,000 that you've got something rather and 989 00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:42,560 i'll just show you how to train it is 990 00:41:46,510 --> 00:41:43,760 left yeah i'm sure don't give you a 991 00:41:47,950 --> 00:41:46,520 certain way of trading it so it removes 992 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:47,960 all the uncertainty and allows you to 993 00:41:52,930 --> 00:41:50,210 feel like you're doing something which 994 00:41:54,820 --> 00:41:52,940 is like it might be a nice idea to give 995 00:41:57,130 --> 00:41:54,830 someone that sort of sense of security 996 00:41:58,690 --> 00:41:57,140 but if you're going to tell them they've 997 00:42:00,880 --> 00:41:58,700 got to advance games the based on a fun 998 00:42:02,530 --> 00:42:00,890 no better you know that's not nice so 999 00:42:04,540 --> 00:42:02,540 but if it prevents them from seagull 1000 00:42:07,630 --> 00:42:04,550 seeking real medical help for a real 1001 00:42:10,150 --> 00:42:07,640 problem just by dealing with the symptom 1002 00:42:12,610 --> 00:42:10,160 of pain in the war or unhappiness that 1003 00:42:14,470 --> 00:42:12,620 they have then they're real medical 1004 00:42:15,940 --> 00:42:14,480 problem will get worse and I measurement 1005 00:42:17,620 --> 00:42:15,950 annoys the hell out of a lot of doctors 1006 00:42:19,450 --> 00:42:17,630 who get patients turn up and tell them 1007 00:42:21,100 --> 00:42:19,460 what their lifeblood analysis has shown 1008 00:42:23,780 --> 00:42:21,110 that they have and now can they please 1009 00:42:25,850 --> 00:42:23,790 have some medication 1010 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:25,860 and the doctor has to then start from 1011 00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:29,130 scratch or even before that and explain 1012 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:32,640 yeah that's not an accurate wait no sir 1013 00:42:35,810 --> 00:42:34,530 somewhere cause that one thing I was 1014 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:35,820 wondering about you know I'm not sure 1015 00:42:39,950 --> 00:42:37,890 they don't have been you join when we're 1016 00:42:43,310 --> 00:42:39,960 looking at the slides it is and it had a 1017 00:42:46,460 --> 00:42:43,320 cancer and get in the bloodstream in the 1018 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:46,470 picture and we were some going you know 1019 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:48,210 wouldn't it be terrible you told some of 1020 00:42:53,630 --> 00:42:50,130 it up cancer from the life of it 1021 00:42:56,540 --> 00:42:53,640 actually said terminal cancer I wonder 1022 00:42:58,430 --> 00:42:56,550 to the 50 thats actually ever come up 1023 00:43:01,870 --> 00:42:58,440 before and if that's just been placed in 1024 00:43:04,190 --> 00:43:01,880 the slides to try and reinforce the real 1025 00:43:12,620 --> 00:43:04,200 real scene when you're thinking maybe I 1026 00:43:16,130 --> 00:43:12,630 should just in case anyway terminal by 1027 00:43:17,780 --> 00:43:16,140 definition then you're screwed I I mean 1028 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:17,790 it whether I mean our i can actually 1029 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:19,890 comment on whether you can simply tell 1030 00:43:26,090 --> 00:43:24,690 her I bought self alike i'm not sure but 1031 00:43:29,050 --> 00:43:26,100 I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to 1032 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:29,060 tell if it's terminal cancer by simply 1033 00:43:36,140 --> 00:43:33,450 looking at testing blood maybe or 1034 00:43:37,070 --> 00:43:36,150 another test as well I hope but not just 1035 00:43:39,470 --> 00:43:37,080 looking and that's all they're doing 1036 00:43:41,630 --> 00:43:39,480 there wasn't looking at a blood so where 1037 00:43:44,630 --> 00:43:41,640 each other what in something by the 1038 00:43:46,310 --> 00:43:44,640 appearance of it yeah well the only way 1039 00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:46,320 you could tell would be if your red 1040 00:43:51,620 --> 00:43:49,440 blood cells were miss shapen and if that 1041 00:43:53,870 --> 00:43:51,630 was a diagnostic characteristic of all a 1042 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:53,880 particular kind of terminal cancer but 1043 00:43:56,810 --> 00:43:55,650 they were suggesting I think well I mean 1044 00:44:02,120 --> 00:43:56,820 it sort of implied that they could tell 1045 00:44:03,710 --> 00:44:02,130 all terminal cancers but what can which 1046 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:03,720 comparisons like endlessly under my 1047 00:44:07,610 --> 00:44:05,490 fingers the red blood cells I don't 1048 00:44:09,380 --> 00:44:07,620 think you can see any of the other 1049 00:44:13,130 --> 00:44:09,390 component it was a really fancy looking 1050 00:44:16,070 --> 00:44:13,140 microscope that they had it was a high 1051 00:44:19,660 --> 00:44:16,080 school grade it was the big plasma 1052 00:44:24,530 --> 00:44:19,670 screen that was given it the scientist 1053 00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:24,540 but that I'm that virtual reality I take 1054 00:44:29,150 --> 00:44:26,880 back control of your life do you need 1055 00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:29,160 help with anxiety depression stress or 1056 00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:30,480 sleep problems are you battling with 1057 00:44:32,780 --> 00:44:31,920 smoking weight management alcohol 1058 00:44:35,180 --> 00:44:32,790 addiction drug addiction gambling 1059 00:44:38,329 --> 00:44:35,190 addiction what you do next 1060 00:44:40,849 --> 00:44:38,339 is you you get some virtual reality 1061 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:40,859 therapy which provides immediate access 1062 00:44:44,780 --> 00:44:43,050 to the benefits of mind-body medicine in 1063 00:44:47,450 --> 00:44:44,790 a consistent pain free and reliable 1064 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:47,460 manner we would like to describe what we 1065 00:44:54,740 --> 00:44:53,130 would be cooked goggle therapy people 1066 00:44:57,670 --> 00:44:54,750 with no you explain it can you have a 1067 00:45:00,020 --> 00:44:57,680 grasp of things like the Lord moment 1068 00:45:02,210 --> 00:45:00,030 people were wearing an ID like play out 1069 00:45:05,420 --> 00:45:02,220 they weren't VR headsets they were just 1070 00:45:08,359 --> 00:45:05,430 hip sets but a TV screen close your eyes 1071 00:45:10,550 --> 00:45:08,369 and then you viewed a peaceful seemed 1072 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:10,560 like a pretty rainforest the scene and 1073 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:14,010 you SAT there motionless and I say they 1074 00:45:17,780 --> 00:45:15,690 not be are because we are immerses you 1075 00:45:18,980 --> 00:45:17,790 in a three-dimensional environment so 1076 00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:18,990 you turn your head and you're looking at 1077 00:45:22,130 --> 00:45:20,609 a different part of the scene this was a 1078 00:45:24,020 --> 00:45:22,140 static seen you turn your head and 1079 00:45:28,670 --> 00:45:24,030 you're looking at the same thing so it's 1080 00:45:31,550 --> 00:45:28,680 like no it's so this yeah I know that 1081 00:45:34,490 --> 00:45:31,560 it's on a on their stall they had a 1082 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:34,500 another like a video clip running on TV 1083 00:45:39,020 --> 00:45:36,930 and it showed a human brain and a neuron 1084 00:45:41,109 --> 00:45:39,030 with like look at the pulse is moving 1085 00:45:44,450 --> 00:45:41,119 along the axioms which look pretty cool 1086 00:45:46,700 --> 00:45:44,460 so I presume there's some science in 1087 00:45:49,370 --> 00:45:46,710 here somewhere well in the in the 1088 00:45:51,230 --> 00:45:49,380 pamphlet it says virtual reality therapy 1089 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:51,240 works with both your conscious and 1090 00:45:55,309 --> 00:45:52,890 subconscious mind to develop new 1091 00:45:58,190 --> 00:45:55,319 neurological pathways so do you think 1092 00:45:59,720 --> 00:45:58,200 that's what that class diagram on the 1093 00:46:03,050 --> 00:45:59,730 computer shows in your undoing new 1094 00:46:06,020 --> 00:46:03,060 pathways it is maybe neuron or neuro is 1095 00:46:09,109 --> 00:46:06,030 that the new a new content roads every 1096 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:09,119 costume it's the countenance of 2010 and 1097 00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:10,890 quantum for the teens actually that's 1098 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:12,510 that's the comment you made earlier ken 1099 00:46:17,870 --> 00:46:14,970 was that quantum was suspiciously absent 1100 00:46:21,530 --> 00:46:17,880 yeah and then my theory which ken thinks 1101 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:21,540 is ridiculously optimistic skeptics have 1102 00:46:25,970 --> 00:46:24,210 actually had a effect on the use of the 1103 00:46:30,290 --> 00:46:25,980 word quantum where it shouldn't be used 1104 00:46:33,910 --> 00:46:30,300 in New Age therapies and the other who 1105 00:46:37,910 --> 00:46:33,920 knows noticeable absence was the lack of 1106 00:46:41,180 --> 00:46:37,920 claims coming from ancient tribal and 1107 00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:41,190 cultural tradition so there was a lot of 1108 00:46:44,900 --> 00:46:43,680 modern technology based things that 1109 00:46:48,410 --> 00:46:44,910 there's not a lot of this is an ancient 1110 00:46:50,750 --> 00:46:48,420 things American treatment no there's not 1111 00:46:52,130 --> 00:46:50,760 a lot of that which is common I expected 1112 00:46:54,890 --> 00:46:52,140 garner the good old days of pillaging 1113 00:47:00,109 --> 00:46:54,900 oven native noble savages Native 1114 00:47:01,820 --> 00:47:00,119 Heritage for their medicines there was a 1115 00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:01,830 lot of technology wasn't there a lot of 1116 00:47:06,859 --> 00:47:04,800 technology it would be interesting to 1117 00:47:10,370 --> 00:47:06,869 actually count up the percentage of 1118 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:10,380 stores that work using science I like 1119 00:47:14,780 --> 00:47:12,210 why we're not using science one other 1120 00:47:19,450 --> 00:47:14,790 word interstitial can something which 1121 00:47:24,940 --> 00:47:22,310 electro interstitial scan and I we've 1122 00:47:27,620 --> 00:47:24,950 been over that one wonderful body scan 1123 00:47:29,390 --> 00:47:27,630 that was that the one that just appeared 1124 00:47:37,220 --> 00:47:29,400 to show you whether you had Albans 1125 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:37,230 inside this is the electrode I need to 1126 00:47:42,290 --> 00:47:40,170 see it I don't know what one noticeable 1127 00:47:44,990 --> 00:47:42,300 absence which go back to your point 1128 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:45,000 about skeptics perhaps having if it was 1129 00:47:50,599 --> 00:47:48,330 power balance bracelets item see any of 1130 00:47:53,180 --> 00:47:50,609 those around and I know they sell them 1131 00:47:55,580 --> 00:47:53,190 in South Australia because I saw them in 1132 00:47:57,109 --> 00:47:55,590 a sports shop in clear they had a 1133 00:48:00,470 --> 00:47:57,119 plastered all over the front windows 1134 00:48:04,340 --> 00:48:00,480 power balance bracelets in stock now in 1135 00:48:08,090 --> 00:48:04,350 that big chalky in bribes so in summing 1136 00:48:10,849 --> 00:48:08,100 up would we go again sure you reckon why 1137 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:10,859 not investigatory purposes sure so 1138 00:48:16,370 --> 00:48:12,810 perhaps if we were to meet up next year 1139 00:48:18,590 --> 00:48:16,380 we won't do that that survey of what's 1140 00:48:21,580 --> 00:48:18,600 what stores are selling something what 1141 00:48:25,630 --> 00:48:21,590 do a bit more counting have a bit more 1142 00:48:27,990 --> 00:48:25,640 yeah a plan of action without and seeing 1143 00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:28,000 what's changed between this year next 1144 00:48:36,220 --> 00:48:31,250 see who's got the bigger stores who's 1145 00:48:38,140 --> 00:48:36,230 doing well out of there CID yeah that's 1146 00:48:41,710 --> 00:48:38,150 right let's see if the spice kitchen is 1147 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:41,720 back again and maybe eat lunch there in 1148 00:48:47,380 --> 00:48:45,170 the new gas stove we didn't example the 1149 00:48:49,860 --> 00:48:47,390 new girl stall for their interesting 1150 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:49,870 therapies and I'm all sure sugar therapy 1151 00:48:59,290 --> 00:48:55,370 had no problem with her odd stores which 1152 00:49:03,180 --> 00:48:59,300 didn't appear to match the spirit of 1153 00:49:07,740 --> 00:49:03,190 being some people we deal with dog food 1154 00:49:10,740 --> 00:49:07,750 stall there was a new Gastel there was 1155 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:10,750 food store and the make-a-wish 1156 00:49:21,310 --> 00:49:17,210 Foundation really she's really oh yeah 1157 00:49:23,830 --> 00:49:21,320 no I'm going to say the first person i 1158 00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:23,840 interviewed was the baptist church and 1159 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:25,730 they mentioned to me that there was four 1160 00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:28,490 other evangelical churches there I 1161 00:49:34,180 --> 00:49:30,530 noticed some people had a prayer tent up 1162 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:34,190 so that there was no sort of divide this 1163 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:36,530 is not just New Age territory this is 1164 00:49:41,770 --> 00:49:38,290 they were quite willing to come in and 1165 00:49:44,110 --> 00:49:41,780 hawk their wares or sell their stuff 1166 00:49:45,790 --> 00:49:44,120 alongside everyone else and of course 1167 00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:45,800 what Scientologists were the first to 1168 00:49:51,410 --> 00:49:48,690 give us a link for the fellow 1169 00:49:54,690 --> 00:49:51,420 we walked in the dweller crossover with 1170 00:50:01,770 --> 00:49:54,700 pseudoscience acknowledging the original 1171 00:50:03,030 --> 00:50:01,780 Christmas yeah then my point was that it 1172 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:03,040 makes sense that they were there they 1173 00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:05,770 wouldn't appreciate a lot of what these 1174 00:50:10,350 --> 00:50:08,530 other groups are selling because they're 1175 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:10,360 selling spirituality that is either not 1176 00:50:15,450 --> 00:50:13,170 to do with God or vaguely to do with God 1177 00:50:17,340 --> 00:50:15,460 they're happy to at least be a part of 1178 00:50:22,740 --> 00:50:17,350 it because if they get any pretending 1179 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:22,750 that you're coming for them so that 1180 00:50:26,550 --> 00:50:23,890 they'll mix it with the devil 1181 00:50:30,140 --> 00:50:26,560 worshippers for a day okay well you know 1182 00:50:37,110 --> 00:50:35,310 you're taking over pagan celebrations or 1183 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:37,120 other well thank you very much everyone 1184 00:50:55,590 --> 00:50:40,090 for make me if it come down thank you 1185 00:51:04,020 --> 00:50:55,600 for me join us now for drinking 1186 00:51:05,730 --> 00:51:04,030 skeptically in the think tank and it's a 1187 00:51:07,710 --> 00:51:05,740 good evening to you all from our 1188 00:51:10,380 --> 00:51:07,720 favorite pub down the street welcome to 1189 00:51:16,020 --> 00:51:10,390 the think tank cheers Cheers thank you 1190 00:51:19,350 --> 00:51:16,030 hmm not champagne this week good old 1191 00:51:21,780 --> 00:51:19,360 diet coke was a water for you on the 1192 00:51:26,530 --> 00:51:21,790 heavy stuff open at a time I got wine 1193 00:51:30,470 --> 00:51:26,540 and is actually on the empathic remedies 1194 00:51:33,710 --> 00:51:30,480 he and that laughter is none other none 1195 00:51:36,859 --> 00:51:33,720 other than our good friend and skeptics 1196 00:51:39,079 --> 00:51:36,869 own stalwart Joanne benim ooh hi Richard 1197 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:39,089 I'm in a while actually I'm glad you 1198 00:51:42,170 --> 00:51:40,530 could make it you're looking very wintry 1199 00:51:44,180 --> 00:51:42,180 tonight why thank you yeah i'm looking 1200 00:51:47,839 --> 00:51:44,190 for chhan attack you your however this 1201 00:51:49,819 --> 00:51:47,849 guy also he would not winter Oh in a 1202 00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:49,829 couple of weeks in Las Vegas gonna be 1203 00:51:53,599 --> 00:51:51,450 joining me by the pool i hope i believe 1204 00:51:56,859 --> 00:51:53,609 so joining me by the pool in a couple of 1205 00:51:59,329 --> 00:51:56,869 weeks also is around sigep pirater I and 1206 00:52:01,549 --> 00:51:59,339 of course joining me by the numbing 1207 00:52:05,079 --> 00:52:01,559 table will be dr. Rachel diamond hi 1208 00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:05,089 Richard hi dr. rich where's the buffet 1209 00:52:09,490 --> 00:52:07,530 don't worry when we go to Las Vegas I'll 1210 00:52:13,790 --> 00:52:09,500 point you in the direction of the buffet 1211 00:52:16,670 --> 00:52:13,800 now a few little notes to get to I've 1212 00:52:19,069 --> 00:52:16,680 had a an email from mal Vickers down in 1213 00:52:22,579 --> 00:52:19,079 Victoria who's part of the Victorian 1214 00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:22,589 skeptics and they've recently updated 1215 00:52:27,190 --> 00:52:25,200 their website the Victorians convinced 1216 00:52:29,299 --> 00:52:27,200 that the other day looks great and 1217 00:52:32,089 --> 00:52:29,309 people in the melbourne area and 1218 00:52:36,349 --> 00:52:32,099 victoria can go to HTTP colon slash 1219 00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:36,359 slash the vic skeptics wordpress com 1220 00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:39,410 check out their great new website mmm 1221 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:43,170 and mal is telling me of a talk which is 1222 00:52:49,190 --> 00:52:47,010 on this monday Monday the 21st dr. ken 1223 00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:49,200 harvey will be speaking to Victorian 1224 00:52:54,079 --> 00:52:51,450 skeptics and mal says he's one of the 1225 00:52:55,730 --> 00:52:54,089 good guys in science most notably known 1226 00:52:58,329 --> 00:52:55,740 for his attempts to clean up some of the 1227 00:53:02,000 --> 00:52:58,339 rubbish outlandish claims of homeopathy 1228 00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:02,010 throughout the TGA so this is at the 1229 00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:05,760 lanata restaurant at 140 Lygon Street 1230 00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:10,290 Carlton the Monday the 21st turn up at 1231 00:53:14,450 --> 00:53:12,089 six o'clock for a chat with skeptics and 1232 00:53:16,789 --> 00:53:14,460 then the talk gets underway at eight 1233 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:16,799 o'clock dr. ken harvey dr. dogs ken 1234 00:53:22,130 --> 00:53:19,770 Harvey's awesome yeah we think very 1235 00:53:24,349 --> 00:53:22,140 highly of dr. ken harvey so look Melvin 1236 00:53:27,460 --> 00:53:24,359 people do yourselves a favor as the 1237 00:53:31,819 --> 00:53:27,470 molly meldrum would say check it out 1238 00:53:33,289 --> 00:53:31,829 also let's go to the other side of the 1239 00:53:36,230 --> 00:53:33,299 country where now we're talking about 1240 00:53:39,110 --> 00:53:36,240 perth and thursday the first of july to 1241 00:53:43,460 --> 00:53:39,120 2010 from six o'clock till nine 1242 00:53:47,450 --> 00:53:43,470 30 at the telethon institute for child 1243 00:53:50,210 --> 00:53:47,460 health research 100 roberts road subiaco 1244 00:53:55,100 --> 00:53:50,220 australia view map oh sorry it's printed 1245 00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:55,110 out confused by the vaccination debate 1246 00:53:59,660 --> 00:53:57,210 are you looking for more information you 1247 00:54:03,470 --> 00:53:59,670 can trust well then you should turn up 1248 00:54:08,300 --> 00:54:03,480 to this talk it's going to be hosted by 1249 00:54:11,450 --> 00:54:08,310 Professor Fiona Stanley AC you can find 1250 00:54:17,060 --> 00:54:11,460 out more by emailing events at IC h r 1251 00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:17,070 dot u wa e dua you i think it's also on 1252 00:54:22,700 --> 00:54:20,610 facebook vaccination the experts the 1253 00:54:24,830 --> 00:54:22,710 facts and our very own Kylie Sturgis is 1254 00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:24,840 going they'll go along and they've given 1255 00:54:28,430 --> 00:54:26,610 her permission to record the whole talk 1256 00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:28,440 please on the skeptics own and I should 1257 00:54:35,330 --> 00:54:31,920 probably point out that Fiona Stanley is 1258 00:54:37,130 --> 00:54:35,340 really an expert not one of those fake 1259 00:54:38,450 --> 00:54:37,140 experts that have been to Perth recently 1260 00:54:42,790 --> 00:54:38,460 saying that they provide credible 1261 00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:42,800 information well so let me mention that 1262 00:54:48,530 --> 00:54:46,170 charros 70 now Charo is the guy on the 1263 00:54:51,110 --> 00:54:48,540 applied kinesiology video who I 1264 00:54:54,140 --> 00:54:51,120 demonstrate the applied kinesiology on 1265 00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:54,150 it show how it works he's written to me 1266 00:54:59,000 --> 00:54:56,400 with an interesting little one he's 1267 00:55:00,950 --> 00:54:59,010 saying I've been trying to see the state 1268 00:55:03,020 --> 00:55:00,960 of alternative medicine at chemists in 1269 00:55:06,530 --> 00:55:03,030 my local area in the process i was told 1270 00:55:11,150 --> 00:55:06,540 that children under six months under six 1271 00:55:13,210 --> 00:55:11,160 months could no longer legally be given 1272 00:55:16,550 --> 00:55:13,220 cough medicines without a prescription 1273 00:55:19,130 --> 00:55:16,560 homeopathic cough medicines were still 1274 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:19,140 fine though and pharmacist was switching 1275 00:55:24,230 --> 00:55:22,010 to promoting them for sales instead 1276 00:55:26,510 --> 00:55:24,240 that's interesting isn't where did he 1277 00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:26,520 where did he find this well his local 1278 00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:28,290 areas the world on the area I think 1279 00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:30,210 there's something in that I can't I've 1280 00:55:36,870 --> 00:55:33,690 got a vague memory of of that issue 1281 00:55:40,070 --> 00:55:36,880 coming up sometime within the last year 1282 00:55:42,540 --> 00:55:40,080 there were just some concerns that i 1283 00:55:46,910 --> 00:55:42,550 really wish I'd actually been able to 1284 00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:49,230 did this thing you would not believe 1285 00:55:56,940 --> 00:55:53,770 what just arrived on the tape no but 1286 00:56:01,230 --> 00:55:56,950 yeah well it's the first time I think 1287 00:56:02,970 --> 00:56:01,240 that I'm the last person to finish the 1288 00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:02,980 first of all anything while I love ice 1289 00:56:07,890 --> 00:56:04,570 cream with chocolate topping and 1290 00:56:10,770 --> 00:56:07,900 cornflakes their kid you not sorry Joey 1291 00:56:13,470 --> 00:56:10,780 um no no I don't know whether this is 1292 00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:13,480 something that's actually there's been a 1293 00:56:17,250 --> 00:56:15,250 ruling on this in terms of what can be 1294 00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:17,260 prescribed to children under six months 1295 00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:20,050 but I do know there was an issue a while 1296 00:56:27,060 --> 00:56:23,770 back to do with certain cough medicines 1297 00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:27,070 being given to children and it was to do 1298 00:56:29,820 --> 00:56:28,090 with some of the ingredients in those 1299 00:56:31,500 --> 00:56:29,830 cough meds and like and I just can't 1300 00:56:32,670 --> 00:56:31,510 remember exactly what the details were 1301 00:56:34,500 --> 00:56:32,680 of that so I think there is probably 1302 00:56:37,170 --> 00:56:34,510 some truth in that and I wouldn't be 1303 00:56:39,390 --> 00:56:37,180 surprised if some of the homeopathic 1304 00:56:42,090 --> 00:56:39,400 products have seen an opportunity there 1305 00:56:43,860 --> 00:56:42,100 to really jump in there and market their 1306 00:56:45,630 --> 00:56:43,870 products imagine that home in first 1307 00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:45,640 being opportunist who would have thought 1308 00:56:51,630 --> 00:56:49,050 um but you know I mean this is just that 1309 00:56:53,970 --> 00:56:51,640 ongoing with the with the issues we've 1310 00:56:56,490 --> 00:56:53,980 discussed so many times which in fact I 1311 00:56:58,620 --> 00:56:56,500 think a while back when we were the 1312 00:57:00,690 --> 00:56:58,630 Australian skeptics that their rum open 1313 00:57:03,210 --> 00:57:00,700 letter to farms pharmacist of Australia 1314 00:57:07,530 --> 00:57:03,220 it was really i think triggered by one 1315 00:57:11,010 --> 00:57:07,540 of those issues which was the stocking 1316 00:57:13,410 --> 00:57:11,020 of pain and fever remedies for children 1317 00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:13,420 and and this falls in line with the same 1318 00:57:18,060 --> 00:57:15,610 kind of thing you know that parents are 1319 00:57:19,830 --> 00:57:18,070 potentially using this nonsense for 1320 00:57:21,690 --> 00:57:19,840 potentially serious childhood illnesses 1321 00:57:24,330 --> 00:57:21,700 i would say undoubtedly there are 1322 00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:24,340 parents out there using nonsense because 1323 00:57:30,060 --> 00:57:27,250 they have been ill informed by people at 1324 00:57:31,770 --> 00:57:30,070 pharmacies that's why personally 1325 00:57:34,020 --> 00:57:31,780 speaking of course not speaking on 1326 00:57:37,140 --> 00:57:34,030 behalf of australian skeptics I really 1327 00:57:38,430 --> 00:57:37,150 don't think very highly of the pharmacy 1328 00:57:40,740 --> 00:57:38,440 industry as a whole because they let 1329 00:57:43,839 --> 00:57:40,750 this sort of thing go on no actually um 1330 00:57:47,469 --> 00:57:43,849 dr. HC posted something recently 1331 00:57:49,900 --> 00:57:47,479 yeah the most trusted professions which 1332 00:57:52,660 --> 00:57:49,910 were I can't remember the exact order i 1333 00:57:54,069 --> 00:57:52,670 think it just let me pull it up because 1334 00:57:56,109 --> 00:57:54,079 it's almost facebook but i think 1335 00:57:58,269 --> 00:57:56,119 pharmacists actually were somewhere in 1336 00:57:59,700 --> 00:57:58,279 the top there and i was quite struck by 1337 00:58:02,829 --> 00:57:59,710 that because i thought you know that 1338 00:58:04,690 --> 00:58:02,839 they're not a good professional group 1339 00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:04,700 that i put very high in my level of 1340 00:58:08,130 --> 00:58:06,650 trust these days well the problem is of 1341 00:58:10,930 --> 00:58:08,140 course when you walk into a pharmacy 1342 00:58:12,940 --> 00:58:10,940 you're not to know who comes up to serve 1343 00:58:13,749 --> 00:58:12,950 you if they're qualified in this that or 1344 00:58:15,519 --> 00:58:13,759 the other or there's some 1345 00:58:18,190 --> 00:58:15,529 representatives from some whoo-hoo 1346 00:58:20,859 --> 00:58:18,200 factory you know yeah so this actually 1347 00:58:23,829 --> 00:58:20,869 this is quite a few months old this list 1348 00:58:25,660 --> 00:58:23,839 if someone sent it to me but every year 1349 00:58:27,940 --> 00:58:25,670 a magazine called Reader's Digest does 1350 00:58:30,430 --> 00:58:27,950 at least called Australia's most trusted 1351 00:58:33,999 --> 00:58:30,440 professions and also Australia's most 1352 00:58:36,729 --> 00:58:34,009 trusted people and I'm not exactly sure 1353 00:58:41,890 --> 00:58:36,739 how they compile it I think it's just by 1354 00:58:44,620 --> 00:58:41,900 readings feedback right so it's a list 1355 00:58:46,890 --> 00:58:44,630 here of 40 professions at the very top 1356 00:58:49,930 --> 00:58:46,900 is ambulance officers followed by 1357 00:58:54,489 --> 00:58:49,940 firefighters and their nurses very Joe 1358 00:58:57,099 --> 00:58:54,499 yeah ah and this is followed by pilots 1359 00:58:59,739 --> 00:58:57,109 and then at number 5 is pharmacists and 1360 00:59:02,859 --> 00:58:59,749 they actually even beat out doctors yeah 1361 00:59:08,740 --> 00:59:02,869 yeah so I mean I've served it in the 1362 00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:13,460 your highness has its time yeah okay pop 1363 00:59:17,150 --> 00:59:16,050 listeners happy I mean I've got a good 1364 00:59:19,810 --> 00:59:17,160 review this week you know that I'm 1365 00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:19,820 saying I've mentioned this before 1366 00:59:25,580 --> 00:59:22,890 because you know they're constantly 1367 00:59:28,100 --> 00:59:25,590 coming up on the top of these lists but 1368 00:59:31,100 --> 00:59:28,110 you know it's stopped taking the piss 1369 00:59:32,630 --> 00:59:31,110 pharmacists really it's you know Joe and 1370 00:59:34,580 --> 00:59:32,640 I had this discussion recently about 1371 00:59:38,060 --> 00:59:34,590 when we sent out our open letter to 1372 00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:38,070 pharmacies what a year ago maybe Oh at 1373 00:59:45,830 --> 00:59:42,720 least yeah over a year go through yeah 1374 00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:45,840 yeah yeah yeah so for listeners that 1375 00:59:50,300 --> 00:59:47,610 don't know we we wrote an open letter to 1376 00:59:51,850 --> 00:59:50,310 pharmacies of Australia I'm imploring 1377 00:59:54,460 --> 00:59:51,860 them to stop selling quackery 1378 00:59:56,900 --> 00:59:54,470 specifically it specifically targeted 1379 00:59:58,400 --> 00:59:56,910 they still do of course we specifically 1380 01:00:02,120 --> 00:59:58,410 targeted ear candles because they've 1381 01:00:03,860 --> 01:00:02,130 demonstrated to cause harm directly by 1382 01:00:05,330 --> 01:00:03,870 dripping wax in your ears and all that 1383 01:00:07,670 --> 01:00:05,340 said the curtains alone or whatever the 1384 01:00:10,790 --> 01:00:07,680 case may be yeah um and Joe and I were 1385 01:00:12,020 --> 01:00:10,800 just you know shaking our heads over the 1386 01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:12,030 fact that really nothing much has 1387 01:00:16,220 --> 01:00:13,650 changed you know I mean we had a very 1388 01:00:18,140 --> 01:00:16,230 good response to that letter but um 1389 01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:18,150 nothing much has changed yes sir 1390 01:00:24,350 --> 01:00:21,090 richard's just pointed to my screen as I 1391 01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:24,360 said there's a top 40 now prettier guys 1392 01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:26,610 reckon would be on the bottom you've 1393 01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:28,770 seen it joe said I'd cheat I've seen it 1394 01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:30,570 too so I'll have to be around Iran um 1395 01:00:36,380 --> 01:00:32,610 who's the least trusted professions 1396 01:00:38,710 --> 01:00:36,390 other journalists are politicians not 1397 01:00:43,430 --> 01:00:38,720 bad politicians came number 38 1398 01:00:46,910 --> 01:00:43,440 journalists came number 32 telemarketers 1399 01:00:48,530 --> 01:00:46,920 were last it's not even a profession yes 1400 01:00:51,290 --> 01:00:48,540 I thought I thought it was I thought he 1401 01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:51,300 was the profession is traveler and then 1402 01:00:57,590 --> 01:00:54,960 Marcus a telemarketer is past time yeah 1403 01:01:00,320 --> 01:00:57,600 that's right maybe but number 37 was 1404 01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:00,330 psychics and astrologers do you think 1405 01:01:05,300 --> 01:01:01,890 they've predicted that I think that it 1406 01:01:08,780 --> 01:01:05,310 became quite high who's number causing 1407 01:01:12,350 --> 01:01:08,790 tally mark oh Jeff modems important car 1408 01:01:14,750 --> 01:01:12,360 salesmen are 39 sex workers are more 1409 01:01:16,180 --> 01:01:14,760 trusted than astrologers and the site of 1410 01:01:20,050 --> 01:01:16,190 real estate agents 1411 01:01:22,150 --> 01:01:20,060 and lawyers but actually the top 40 the 1412 01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:22,160 most trusted people we have a friend 1413 01:01:26,770 --> 01:01:24,290 somewhere at the top usually my dick 1414 01:01:29,859 --> 01:01:26,780 smith yeah yeah yeah as you can also dr. 1415 01:01:32,109 --> 01:01:29,869 Karl yeah he's always at the top five 1416 01:01:33,609 --> 01:01:32,119 okay he gave at all points where he 1417 01:01:35,740 --> 01:01:33,619 showed that every year he dropped up 1418 01:01:37,900 --> 01:01:35,750 space that he's dr. positions i mean i 1419 01:01:43,540 --> 01:01:37,910 can tell you who the most trusted people 1420 01:01:45,130 --> 01:01:43,550 were yes dr. karl was number 11 and last 1421 01:01:47,910 --> 01:01:45,140 year he was number 10 dick smith is 1422 01:01:50,079 --> 01:01:47,920 number eight mmm last year was number 12 1423 01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:50,089 so maybe it's because of his 1424 01:01:56,050 --> 01:01:53,450 immunization or the most campaign that i 1425 01:01:58,599 --> 01:01:56,060 see the most trusted for night 2009 was 1426 01:02:01,050 --> 01:01:58,609 dr. Fiona would burn specialist that's 1427 01:02:03,130 --> 01:02:01,060 good yeah and that's that's my story 1428 01:02:05,770 --> 01:02:03,140 yeah that's based on the work she did 1429 01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:05,780 surrounding the bali bombings number 1430 01:02:09,370 --> 01:02:07,250 three another Australian of the Year 1431 01:02:11,500 --> 01:02:09,380 professor ian fraser cancer researcher 1432 01:02:16,059 --> 01:02:11,510 yeah but he's evil because he designed 1433 01:02:18,819 --> 01:02:16,069 that um HPV vaccine vaccine which you 1434 01:02:20,950 --> 01:02:18,829 know all the RT races don't like that 1435 01:02:23,550 --> 01:02:20,960 one number six male friend Hugh Jackman 1436 01:02:26,170 --> 01:02:23,560 look at that year old friend yeah Oh 1437 01:02:28,030 --> 01:02:26,180 Princess Mary of Denmark came in at 1438 01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:28,040 number nine I thought she gave up her 1439 01:02:38,059 --> 01:02:35,359 I don't know oh no so and the list goes 1440 01:02:41,950 --> 01:02:38,069 on and on who's down the bottom he's 1441 01:02:46,430 --> 01:02:41,960 down the bottom least trusted person oh 1442 01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:46,440 yeah number 100 is David Hicks haha 1443 01:02:53,539 --> 01:02:48,770 where he was our sort of terrorist 1444 01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:53,549 suspect and then number 98 is Ben 1445 01:02:58,069 --> 01:02:55,890 Cousins who's an AFL player who got 1446 01:03:01,460 --> 01:02:58,079 kicked out of his football team for too 1447 01:03:04,670 --> 01:03:01,470 much cocaine abuse number 91 Carl's Kyle 1448 01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:04,680 Sandilands Australians no shop Talk oh 1449 01:03:10,510 --> 01:03:06,690 and Joe Joe here's something for years 1450 01:03:14,779 --> 01:03:10,520 number 90 senator stephen fielding 1451 01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:14,789 that's actually so high so high for him 1452 01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:16,650 do you want to tell out this is about 1453 01:03:24,789 --> 01:03:19,530 the the faux pas or didn't go so 1454 01:03:28,339 --> 01:03:24,799 yesterday ah it's so incomprehensibly 1455 01:03:30,170 --> 01:03:28,349 imbecilic I just at this I mean I guess 1456 01:03:33,559 --> 01:03:30,180 the thing is really this is the state of 1457 01:03:36,980 --> 01:03:33,569 some of the people representing us in 1458 01:03:40,339 --> 01:03:36,990 our Senate then I fear I fear her 1459 01:03:44,690 --> 01:03:40,349 country so the this railing government 1460 01:03:49,849 --> 01:03:44,700 has been looking at bringing in some 1461 01:03:51,170 --> 01:03:49,859 long-awaited a page parental leave I 1462 01:03:53,510 --> 01:03:51,180 think that's just going through today 1463 01:03:54,620 --> 01:03:53,520 yeah I haven't actually had a chance to 1464 01:03:57,609 --> 01:03:54,630 look at what's happened since yesterday 1465 01:04:01,660 --> 01:03:57,619 but um it's actually you know been 1466 01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:01,670 supported fairly well from both sides 1467 01:04:07,069 --> 01:04:03,930 senator stephen fielding for those who 1468 01:04:11,089 --> 01:04:07,079 don't know is is from the family first 1469 01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:11,099 party who are a moral majority in fact 1470 01:04:17,539 --> 01:04:14,640 some people might have seen him on QA 1471 01:04:20,329 --> 01:04:17,549 we're young yeah where Richard orange 1472 01:04:25,370 --> 01:04:20,339 come here internet and right turn 1473 01:04:27,529 --> 01:04:25,380 earthworm that's right he did someone 1474 01:04:29,900 --> 01:04:27,539 asking the age of the earth yes anyone 1475 01:04:33,349 --> 01:04:29,910 fuser answer keys to answer so I'm 1476 01:04:36,950 --> 01:04:33,359 anyway yesterday in in Parliament Center 1477 01:04:39,589 --> 01:04:36,960 fielding came out in opposition to the 1478 01:04:42,130 --> 01:04:39,599 current paid parental leave as it stands 1479 01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:42,140 because he's very concerned 1480 01:04:48,700 --> 01:04:44,450 that drug addicts and welfare cheats 1481 01:04:51,579 --> 01:04:48,710 might become pregnant and then have an 1482 01:04:54,430 --> 01:04:51,589 abortion at 20 weeks the reason for this 1483 01:04:58,120 --> 01:04:54,440 is that the legislation or the the 1484 01:05:00,519 --> 01:04:58,130 parental leave will allow mothers who 1485 01:05:03,130 --> 01:05:00,529 have stillborn babies to still claim 1486 01:05:04,930 --> 01:05:03,140 this leave so senator building is very 1487 01:05:06,370 --> 01:05:04,940 concerned that drug addicts and welfare 1488 01:05:09,279 --> 01:05:06,380 cheats might take advantage of this by 1489 01:05:10,779 --> 01:05:09,289 having abortions so it doesn't know the 1490 01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:10,789 difference between an abortion in this 1491 01:05:15,099 --> 01:05:13,250 no I don't know this is the same man who 1492 01:05:18,730 --> 01:05:15,109 believes probably must believe that 1493 01:05:20,529 --> 01:05:18,740 dinosaurs are on Noah's Ark yes yes I'll 1494 01:05:22,569 --> 01:05:20,539 just show this is the latest i just 1495 01:05:25,019 --> 01:05:22,579 pulled up the news and he's now 1496 01:05:27,759 --> 01:05:25,029 defending his controversial remarks 1497 01:05:30,370 --> 01:05:27,769 saying that all i was trying to do was 1498 01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:30,380 close that loophole senator fielding 1499 01:05:36,099 --> 01:05:32,930 told ABC television and adding that his 1500 01:05:50,710 --> 01:05:36,109 approach was fair and reasonable can we 1501 01:05:52,749 --> 01:05:50,720 borrow something from joe drive here can 1502 01:05:54,759 --> 01:05:52,759 you can you get ready Stu another one 1503 01:05:57,279 --> 01:05:54,769 uh-huh I wasn't the only one to raise 1504 01:05:58,839 --> 01:05:57,289 this issue in the Senate yesterday but 1505 01:06:00,670 --> 01:05:58,849 senator building when pressed to name 1506 01:06:16,690 --> 01:06:00,680 the other senators could not come up 1507 01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:16,700 with any names thank you for that dr. H 1508 01:06:20,319 --> 01:06:19,130 you know Ron before we get to you I now 1509 01:06:26,779 --> 01:06:20,329 I'd like to talk about I'm goodall 1510 01:06:33,199 --> 01:06:31,189 um right so Travis Roy is a good friend 1511 01:06:36,199 --> 01:06:33,209 from Granite State skeptics I'm sorry 1512 01:06:37,669 --> 01:06:36,209 Richard go on I just went out this whole 1513 01:06:39,349 --> 01:06:37,679 business folks and I was criticized so 1514 01:06:41,140 --> 01:06:39,359 now it's Rachel's to criticize I 1515 01:06:43,849 --> 01:06:41,150 couldn't understand what you were saying 1516 01:06:45,109 --> 01:06:43,859 so I'd cocoa promise see if you can do 1517 01:06:48,049 --> 01:06:45,119 it in less than 15 minutes this time 1518 01:06:49,969 --> 01:06:48,059 travis roy from Granite State skeptics 1519 01:06:51,679 --> 01:06:49,979 wrote to a magazine called Men's Fitness 1520 01:06:53,599 --> 01:06:51,689 where he'd noticed that they were 1521 01:06:56,839 --> 01:06:53,609 advertising power balance and he's been 1522 01:06:59,659 --> 01:06:56,849 very active in debunking the claims made 1523 01:07:02,479 --> 01:06:59,669 by power balance and in fact a couple of 1524 01:07:05,329 --> 01:07:02,489 weeks back Travis found a supplier in 1525 01:07:08,239 --> 01:07:05,339 China and where we could buy them for 1526 01:07:11,150 --> 01:07:08,249 three cents or you can actually order 1527 01:07:13,189 --> 01:07:11,160 samples three samples for free or just 1528 01:07:15,679 --> 01:07:13,199 for the cost of the postage and I 1529 01:07:18,199 --> 01:07:15,689 noticed that this week he received his 1530 01:07:21,439 --> 01:07:18,209 sample power balance bracelets and he he 1531 01:07:23,419 --> 01:07:21,449 served me a message saying that he based 1532 01:07:25,159 --> 01:07:23,429 on some of the claims that they improve 1533 01:07:26,449 --> 01:07:25,169 your strength by five hundred percent he 1534 01:07:29,499 --> 01:07:26,459 was going to go out and throw some cars 1535 01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:29,509 around the neighborhood cuz he had three 1536 01:07:34,249 --> 01:07:31,890 so if you wear them all at once I I 1537 01:07:37,189 --> 01:07:34,259 guess that's additive so anyway he wrote 1538 01:07:38,870 --> 01:07:37,199 to this magazine doesn't multiply do you 1539 01:07:41,689 --> 01:07:38,880 think is exponential or attitude could 1540 01:07:45,199 --> 01:07:41,699 be financial who knows don't know their 1541 01:07:47,569 --> 01:07:45,209 hands which other advil well what about 1542 01:07:49,339 --> 01:07:47,579 your bioenergy field do they Oh does it 1543 01:07:53,359 --> 01:07:49,349 oscillate with the harmonics I wonder 1544 01:07:54,679 --> 01:07:53,369 yeah anyway uh so he wrote to this 1545 01:07:55,969 --> 01:07:54,689 magazine and suggested that they 1546 01:07:57,799 --> 01:07:55,979 shouldn't really be advertising power 1547 01:08:01,579 --> 01:07:57,809 balance because it's you know doesn't do 1548 01:08:03,079 --> 01:08:01,589 anything and they wrote back a gentleman 1549 01:08:04,759 --> 01:08:03,089 by the name of Aaron Brooks who's the 1550 01:08:07,189 --> 01:08:04,769 publisher of men's fitness and said 1551 01:08:08,779 --> 01:08:07,199 thanks for your comments Travis we don't 1552 01:08:10,099 --> 01:08:08,789 judge the products that are advertised 1553 01:08:12,919 --> 01:08:10,109 in men's fitness that's up to our 1554 01:08:14,419 --> 01:08:12,929 readers to do on the whole our readers 1555 01:08:16,399 --> 01:08:14,429 are pretty switched on discerning guys 1556 01:08:17,959 --> 01:08:16,409 who love the magazine we are happy to 1557 01:08:20,059 --> 01:08:17,969 run advertisements for all types of 1558 01:08:22,370 --> 01:08:20,069 products as long as they meet our moral 1559 01:08:25,430 --> 01:08:22,380 code you will never see ads for porn 1560 01:08:27,319 --> 01:08:25,440 sites brothels etc in men's fitness we 1561 01:08:29,419 --> 01:08:27,329 have a very high editorial standard 1562 01:08:32,089 --> 01:08:29,429 which tries to empower men to be the 1563 01:08:34,099 --> 01:08:32,099 best they can be this is it the avian 1564 01:08:35,629 --> 01:08:34,109 and I think your claim that we have 1565 01:08:38,780 --> 01:08:35,639 ripped off our readers is a little over 1566 01:08:42,770 --> 01:08:38,790 the top so Travis wrote back to 1567 01:08:45,950 --> 01:08:42,780 and Brooks and said what a great moral 1568 01:08:47,590 --> 01:08:45,960 go what a great moral code you guys sell 1569 01:08:49,700 --> 01:08:47,600 scam products where do you draw the line 1570 01:08:51,380 --> 01:08:49,710 sure the power balance is a silly 1571 01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:51,390 bracelet but it cost three cents from 1572 01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:53,250 the distributor and they charge sixty 1573 01:08:57,800 --> 01:08:55,890 dollars so it's okay to sell a product 1574 01:08:59,570 --> 01:08:57,810 that fails all these tests what about 1575 01:09:02,829 --> 01:08:59,580 unsafe supplements what about homeopathy 1576 01:09:05,750 --> 01:09:02,839 what about other bogus claims and cures 1577 01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:05,760 how can you promote a product that does 1578 01:09:10,039 --> 01:09:08,130 not perform as claimed fail simple tests 1579 01:09:12,410 --> 01:09:10,049 hiding behind saying it's not violating 1580 01:09:15,610 --> 01:09:12,420 your moral code sounds like a bad moral 1581 01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:15,620 code to me well read reaching oh yeah 1582 01:09:21,340 --> 01:09:18,690 stop that well written Pervis no I don't 1583 01:09:25,300 --> 01:09:21,350 know the responses of these people is 1584 01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:25,310 not dissimilar to Oprah's view of her 1585 01:09:29,480 --> 01:09:27,810 viewers that you know that their descent 1586 01:09:31,789 --> 01:09:29,490 everyone's discerning and everyone's 1587 01:09:34,250 --> 01:09:31,799 able to judge for themselves and it's 1588 01:09:36,770 --> 01:09:34,260 not our responsibility now you've got 1589 01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:36,780 something to say about that yeah it 1590 01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:38,250 reminds me of a point that you brought 1591 01:09:42,110 --> 01:09:40,799 up in New York are you reading my mind 1592 01:09:45,340 --> 01:09:42,120 or something I was just thinking of that 1593 01:09:48,079 --> 01:09:45,350 are you a psychic yes I am continue okay 1594 01:09:50,210 --> 01:09:48,089 yeah I had this exact discussion joy 1595 01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:50,220 with Howard Schneider who's a journalist 1596 01:09:55,370 --> 01:09:52,730 from New York a lecturer and journalist 1597 01:10:01,220 --> 01:09:55,380 when I did a panel about the media at 1598 01:10:03,830 --> 01:10:01,230 Nexus in 2008-9 and myself and John 1599 01:10:06,260 --> 01:10:03,840 Schneider he's a pediatrician we're 1600 01:10:09,530 --> 01:10:06,270 talking about the responsibility of 1601 01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:09,540 journalists to provide accurate 1602 01:10:15,950 --> 01:10:12,770 information to their readers and his 1603 01:10:18,650 --> 01:10:15,960 argument with me was that they're just 1604 01:10:20,390 --> 01:10:18,660 that a report events as they see it and 1605 01:10:23,830 --> 01:10:20,400 it's up to the readers to make a 1606 01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:23,840 decision now I took objection to that 1607 01:10:27,530 --> 01:10:26,130 particularly in the sense of false 1608 01:10:29,630 --> 01:10:27,540 balance which we've talked about on the 1609 01:10:33,260 --> 01:10:29,640 show before you know where you'll go and 1610 01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:33,270 ask the anti-vaxxers about you know a 1611 01:10:37,580 --> 01:10:35,970 vaccine issue when you know and I 1612 01:10:39,770 --> 01:10:37,590 proposed to him I mean this was actually 1613 01:10:41,210 --> 01:10:39,780 Richards idea is if you're doing a story 1614 01:10:43,100 --> 01:10:41,220 on the Holocaust are you going to go and 1615 01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:43,110 ask a Holocaust denier well he said well 1616 01:10:47,210 --> 01:10:44,850 no of course not like that's a stupid 1617 01:10:49,169 --> 01:10:47,220 question well then why would you talk to 1618 01:10:51,870 --> 01:10:49,179 the anti-vaxxers if you're doing a 1619 01:10:55,500 --> 01:10:51,880 Australian on vaccines and so he had the 1620 01:10:57,270 --> 01:10:55,510 similar opinion and I think I've spoken 1621 01:10:59,790 --> 01:10:57,280 to a few people about this including 1622 01:11:02,520 --> 01:10:59,800 john rani from scientific american the 1623 01:11:03,989 --> 01:11:02,530 editor-in-chief and that's the way 1624 01:11:07,140 --> 01:11:03,999 they're trained because they're trained 1625 01:11:11,540 --> 01:11:07,150 to get both sides of the story even when 1626 01:11:13,919 --> 01:11:11,550 there are not you know my husband is a 1627 01:11:16,410 --> 01:11:13,929 not working as a journalist but he comes 1628 01:11:18,239 --> 01:11:16,420 from a journalistic background and he 1629 01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:18,249 takes that viewpoint very strongly that 1630 01:11:23,189 --> 01:11:20,170 it is the journalists place to report 1631 01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:23,199 and I and I do support that I understand 1632 01:11:27,270 --> 01:11:25,570 that viewpoint and when it comes to 1633 01:11:30,330 --> 01:11:27,280 things like politics when it comes to 1634 01:11:34,649 --> 01:11:30,340 things like reporting on his on events I 1635 01:11:37,350 --> 01:11:34,659 find when I read a newspaper I can very 1636 01:11:39,390 --> 01:11:37,360 clearly distinguish now I had trouble 1637 01:11:41,339 --> 01:11:39,400 when I was younger but I find I can very 1638 01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:41,349 clearly distinguish now between a 1639 01:11:46,620 --> 01:11:44,530 journalistic piece that is passing a 1640 01:11:49,379 --> 01:11:46,630 judgment on something and a journalistic 1641 01:11:50,939 --> 01:11:49,389 piece that is reporting on an event but 1642 01:11:53,759 --> 01:11:50,949 when it comes to science and when it 1643 01:11:56,370 --> 01:11:53,769 comes to things like vaccination I do 1644 01:11:58,649 --> 01:11:56,380 take issue with false balance and I 1645 01:11:59,910 --> 01:11:58,659 think there it is a totally different 1646 01:12:03,120 --> 01:11:59,920 ball game when it comes to things like 1647 01:12:05,250 --> 01:12:03,130 you know consumer issues you know 1648 01:12:07,290 --> 01:12:05,260 reporting on products and on and on 1649 01:12:09,179 --> 01:12:07,300 their effectiveness I'm sorry I don't 1650 01:12:12,959 --> 01:12:09,189 think that's what journalists are doing 1651 01:12:14,669 --> 01:12:12,969 well I think it's mostly it's okay to 1652 01:12:17,819 --> 01:12:14,679 just report when you're talking about 1653 01:12:19,529 --> 01:12:17,829 opinions but when there is fact it's the 1654 01:12:23,100 --> 01:12:19,539 journalists responsibility to determine 1655 01:12:24,419 --> 01:12:23,110 what the facts are so and then they do 1656 01:12:28,109 --> 01:12:24,429 make choices and that's a really 1657 01:12:30,209 --> 01:12:28,119 important point to make when when 1658 01:12:31,500 --> 01:12:30,219 somebody for example it's a good example 1659 01:12:34,319 --> 01:12:31,510 of course about vaccine when somebody 1660 01:12:36,899 --> 01:12:34,329 reports on vaccines to go to the avian 1661 01:12:39,750 --> 01:12:36,909 or some organization like that to get to 1662 01:12:42,540 --> 01:12:39,760 get a response is a is it is making a 1663 01:12:44,219 --> 01:12:42,550 statement it is making a decision so it 1664 01:12:46,259 --> 01:12:44,229 is not like whatever available 1665 01:12:47,969 --> 01:12:46,269 information I just put it out there you 1666 01:12:51,419 --> 01:12:47,979 go and seek some information you choose 1667 01:12:52,919 --> 01:12:51,429 what information to see so I don't I 1668 01:12:54,270 --> 01:12:52,929 don't buy that I think we needs to do 1669 01:12:56,500 --> 01:12:54,280 when it's anything to do with very very 1670 01:12:58,810 --> 01:12:56,510 50 facts the 1671 01:13:00,509 --> 01:12:58,820 they have a responsibility to report the 1672 01:13:03,399 --> 01:13:00,519 best available facts that's very easy 1673 01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:03,409 journalism to instead of doing all that 1674 01:13:06,970 --> 01:13:05,210 you simply call up this person for them 1675 01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:06,980 this point of view in that person from 1676 01:13:10,660 --> 01:13:08,570 that point of view and get them together 1677 01:13:12,189 --> 01:13:10,670 a scam and that's your story yes that's 1678 01:13:14,319 --> 01:13:12,199 easy but you have to you have to also 1679 01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:14,329 consider that in the 24 hour news world 1680 01:13:19,990 --> 01:13:16,610 you know the deadlines are ridiculous 1681 01:13:21,850 --> 01:13:20,000 they don't have time to do or know and 1682 01:13:24,490 --> 01:13:21,860 and also specialist journalists are 1683 01:13:25,629 --> 01:13:24,500 becoming less and less common so science 1684 01:13:27,879 --> 01:13:25,639 journalists are not around as much 1685 01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:27,889 anymore so sometimes generalist to 1686 01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:30,050 getting the job of a science report and 1687 01:13:33,580 --> 01:13:31,489 they might not be trained in that area 1688 01:13:35,979 --> 01:13:33,590 so it's all we can't give them too hard 1689 01:13:39,339 --> 01:13:35,989 a time but you know but the thing is 1690 01:13:40,959 --> 01:13:39,349 they generally son all trained to also 1691 01:13:42,700 --> 01:13:40,969 judge evidence and they will go for 1692 01:13:45,339 --> 01:13:42,710 anecdotal evidence and speaking of 1693 01:13:50,020 --> 01:13:45,349 anecdotal evidence I was sick way sacred 1694 01:13:54,310 --> 01:13:50,030 the Segway last night yes the new south 1695 01:13:56,649 --> 01:13:54,320 wales rugby league team last week around 1696 01:13:58,720 --> 01:13:56,659 the world would have possibly remembered 1697 01:14:02,020 --> 01:13:58,730 me talking about the fact that our rugby 1698 01:14:03,729 --> 01:14:02,030 league team in New South Wales were seen 1699 01:14:04,990 --> 01:14:03,739 using the power balance and their 1700 01:14:07,089 --> 01:14:05,000 training and they had lots of publicity 1701 01:14:09,129 --> 01:14:07,099 about it well they had their big match 1702 01:14:11,919 --> 01:14:09,139 last night and they would just ripped 1703 01:14:17,379 --> 01:14:11,929 apart your wrist apart it was already 34 1704 01:14:19,779 --> 01:14:17,389 nil and ended up 34 6 and well I guess 1705 01:14:21,459 --> 01:14:19,789 it didn't help I was looking for at the 1706 01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:21,469 news today to find I was looking for 1707 01:14:26,319 --> 01:14:24,050 news items that actually said news items 1708 01:14:28,779 --> 01:14:26,329 from today that had power balance in 1709 01:14:30,279 --> 01:14:28,789 them and the latest news items with 1710 01:14:32,919 --> 01:14:30,289 power balancing them were news items 1711 01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:32,929 from yesterday saying but that the new 1712 01:14:36,549 --> 01:14:34,610 south wales blues wore the power balance 1713 01:14:40,870 --> 01:14:36,559 bracelet now what I find a little bit 1714 01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:40,880 amusing was that amongst the skeptics 1715 01:14:45,790 --> 01:14:44,210 there was you know we are all we all 1716 01:14:47,859 --> 01:14:45,800 live in New South Wales you know 1717 01:14:50,799 --> 01:14:47,869 typically if we cared enough we would 1718 01:14:52,379 --> 01:14:50,809 want new south wales to win but in this 1719 01:14:55,919 --> 01:14:52,389 case 1720 01:14:59,250 --> 01:14:55,929 no not so much yeah there is a certain 1721 01:15:01,859 --> 01:14:59,260 element of schadenfreude in here but um 1722 01:15:04,709 --> 01:15:01,869 them losing after we're giving all the 1723 01:15:07,529 --> 01:15:04,719 publicity gracefully didn't it'll help 1724 01:15:09,569 --> 01:15:07,539 they could get they lost very badly but 1725 01:15:11,429 --> 01:15:09,579 they didn't is because of it i'm not i'm 1726 01:15:13,020 --> 01:15:11,439 not very issue with that it's just that 1727 01:15:14,429 --> 01:15:13,030 you know that they thought that they 1728 01:15:17,609 --> 01:15:14,439 would win because of it is just 1729 01:15:19,020 --> 01:15:17,619 ridiculous surfing and if we since we're 1730 01:15:20,459 --> 01:15:19,030 talking about last week and i'm actually 1731 01:15:21,989 --> 01:15:20,469 something else to follow up on something 1732 01:15:25,409 --> 01:15:21,999 that you mentioned last week you were 1733 01:15:28,469 --> 01:15:25,419 talking about Penelope dingle who died 1734 01:15:30,540 --> 01:15:28,479 from colorectal cancer after being 1735 01:15:34,529 --> 01:15:30,550 treated by owner well not being treated 1736 01:15:35,939 --> 01:15:34,539 by Alma path so I read about because he 1737 01:15:37,649 --> 01:15:35,949 very interesting story so I followed up 1738 01:15:39,029 --> 01:15:37,659 on it and read and I'm kind of this 1739 01:15:43,409 --> 01:15:39,039 story here that describes the hope 1740 01:15:45,899 --> 01:15:43,419 basically describes the the lawsuit that 1741 01:15:48,750 --> 01:15:45,909 a pen was brought by a sisters it's a 1742 01:15:53,250 --> 01:15:48,760 colonial in West I'm sorry okay yeah so 1743 01:15:55,529 --> 01:15:53,260 it was a but her sisters are are the 1744 01:15:57,569 --> 01:15:55,539 ones who are seem to be prominent there 1745 01:16:00,270 --> 01:15:57,579 in it there was a sentence there that I 1746 01:16:03,060 --> 01:16:00,280 found very interesting it said all four 1747 01:16:05,189 --> 01:16:03,070 sisters use homeopathic remedies they 1748 01:16:07,379 --> 01:16:05,199 stress the purpose of the inquiry is not 1749 01:16:08,669 --> 01:16:07,389 to demonize the practice but to 1750 01:16:12,419 --> 01:16:08,679 highlight the potential lack of 1751 01:16:14,429 --> 01:16:12,429 regulation of the industry I find that 1752 01:16:17,359 --> 01:16:14,439 quite appalling it means they just don't 1753 01:16:20,219 --> 01:16:17,369 get it they think it's this one rogue 1754 01:16:22,259 --> 01:16:20,229 homeopath they don't understand that how 1755 01:16:23,669 --> 01:16:22,269 many operatives clap and it doesn't work 1756 01:16:24,750 --> 01:16:23,679 and there's no evidence that he work and 1757 01:16:26,339 --> 01:16:24,760 there were never will be evidence that 1758 01:16:30,149 --> 01:16:26,349 it works because it doesn't any can't 1759 01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:30,159 and and of course I I agree that 1760 01:16:36,179 --> 01:16:33,130 Francine's crane is worse than many 1761 01:16:39,209 --> 01:16:36,189 others because she was you know 1762 01:16:41,669 --> 01:16:39,219 obviously just morally behaving very 1763 01:16:45,750 --> 01:16:41,679 poorly in addition to just selling 1764 01:16:48,629 --> 01:16:45,760 homeopathy by convincing gum Penelope 1765 01:16:50,729 --> 01:16:48,639 not to go to a real doctor but uh yeah 1766 01:16:54,989 --> 01:16:50,739 the problem is homeopathy not Francine 1767 01:16:58,679 --> 01:16:54,999 explain well you know yeah I had a look 1768 01:17:00,719 --> 01:16:58,689 into the code of conduct that is from 1769 01:17:03,260 --> 01:17:00,729 the Australian homeopathic Association 1770 01:17:06,380 --> 01:17:03,270 and in that article around that you just 1771 01:17:09,480 --> 01:17:06,390 cited it does say that she is registered 1772 01:17:11,220 --> 01:17:09,490 Francine screen is with the Australian 1773 01:17:14,580 --> 01:17:11,230 registration of homeopaths or something 1774 01:17:15,990 --> 01:17:14,590 can you dig up exactly Francine screen 1775 01:17:19,110 --> 01:17:16,000 is registered with the Australian 1776 01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:19,120 register of homeopaths right so I'm not 1777 01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:20,890 sure if that means she comes under the 1778 01:17:24,780 --> 01:17:23,170 legislation of the AAAS tralian 1779 01:17:27,480 --> 01:17:24,790 homeopathic Association but i think it 1780 01:17:28,980 --> 01:17:27,490 probably does so a dug up their code of 1781 01:17:31,140 --> 01:17:28,990 conduct and it might not surprise you to 1782 01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:31,150 know it's nine pages long compared to 1783 01:17:35,420 --> 01:17:32,890 you know some other professions code of 1784 01:17:40,290 --> 01:17:35,430 conduct which is like hundreds of pages 1785 01:17:42,570 --> 01:17:40,300 it's not particularly detailed but 1786 01:17:44,460 --> 01:17:42,580 anyway so I tried to find sections where 1787 01:17:48,750 --> 01:17:44,470 she's breached that code if indeed she 1788 01:17:50,940 --> 01:17:48,760 is a member section one part one the 1789 01:17:53,010 --> 01:17:50,950 very very first part of it it says under 1790 01:17:55,590 --> 01:17:53,020 general principles of Professional 1791 01:17:58,080 --> 01:17:55,600 Conduct it states that the welfare of 1792 01:17:59,970 --> 01:17:58,090 patients shall take precedence over a 1793 01:18:02,400 --> 01:17:59,980 member self interest on the interest of 1794 01:18:05,730 --> 01:18:02,410 employees and colleagues and then 1795 01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:05,740 section 2.4 is that patients whose state 1796 01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:08,410 of health is deteriorating shall not be 1797 01:18:12,480 --> 01:18:10,330 attended indefinitely without the member 1798 01:18:14,730 --> 01:18:12,490 in charge suggesting or insisting upon a 1799 01:18:16,830 --> 01:18:14,740 consultation with at least one other 1800 01:18:18,900 --> 01:18:16,840 practitioner to confirm the assessment 1801 01:18:20,850 --> 01:18:18,910 and treatment what what so it's all 1802 01:18:22,590 --> 01:18:20,860 pretty babe baloney is that what do they 1803 01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:22,600 mean another location because the thing 1804 01:18:26,100 --> 01:18:24,370 is that all they do then is just passed 1805 01:18:28,530 --> 01:18:26,110 a person around from one homeopath to 1806 01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:28,540 the next and if an event head of the 1807 01:18:32,370 --> 01:18:30,850 other you'd know that no no no another 1808 01:18:34,890 --> 01:18:32,380 homeopath and if and if another 1809 01:18:37,710 --> 01:18:34,900 homeopath also has the same view that 1810 01:18:40,470 --> 01:18:37,720 that medical science and medical the 1811 01:18:42,420 --> 01:18:40,480 medical profession is the wrong way to 1812 01:18:44,670 --> 01:18:42,430 go then they're just going to pass the 1813 01:18:46,740 --> 01:18:44,680 person back and forth between them but 1814 01:18:47,690 --> 01:18:46,750 I'm sure we'd all like to see the end of 1815 01:18:50,690 --> 01:18:47,700 homeopathy 1816 01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:50,700 yeah well advanced degrees any things 1817 01:18:54,500 --> 01:18:53,010 that he might be be close to the end of 1818 01:18:55,970 --> 01:18:54,510 homeopathy I disagree with him by the 1819 01:18:58,460 --> 01:18:55,980 way I think he'll never go away 1820 01:18:59,840 --> 01:18:58,470 completely but uh just could be but he 1821 01:19:01,270 --> 01:18:59,850 could be little but could be losing a 1822 01:19:04,940 --> 01:19:01,280 lot of power and that's very important 1823 01:19:06,890 --> 01:19:04,950 the title the title of the article he 1824 01:19:08,750 --> 01:19:06,900 wrote for The Guardian is homeopathy 1825 01:19:11,900 --> 01:19:08,760 Awareness Week is this the homeopath 1826 01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:11,910 last stand and he wrote about a few of 1827 01:19:14,750 --> 01:19:13,170 the things that have been going wrong 1828 01:19:16,910 --> 01:19:14,760 from the opportunity of course there's 1829 01:19:20,150 --> 01:19:16,920 the report from the commons Science and 1830 01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:20,160 Technology Committee in addition to that 1831 01:19:24,230 --> 01:19:22,890 in peace also criticized homeopaths for 1832 01:19:27,110 --> 01:19:24,240 trying to mislead the public by 1833 01:19:28,940 --> 01:19:27,120 providing inaccurate information the 1834 01:19:31,730 --> 01:19:28,950 Prince of Wales foundation of integrated 1835 01:19:35,750 --> 01:19:31,740 health staunch supporter from your path 1836 01:19:37,850 --> 01:19:35,760 in that NHS folded and apparently wasn't 1837 01:19:40,010 --> 01:19:37,860 just because of money problems they 1838 01:19:41,780 --> 01:19:40,020 folded in the midst of a police 1839 01:19:45,830 --> 01:19:41,790 investigation for fraud and money 1840 01:19:47,660 --> 01:19:45,840 laundering oh yeah and last month the 1841 01:19:51,590 --> 01:19:47,670 British Medical Association described 1842 01:19:54,470 --> 01:19:51,600 ami opt as witchcraft and called for an 1843 01:19:56,570 --> 01:19:54,480 end to all funding on the NHS oh um he 1844 01:19:58,310 --> 01:19:56,580 says that it's not a not a streak of bad 1845 01:20:04,880 --> 01:19:58,320 luck it's just that it's well deserved 1846 01:20:06,440 --> 01:20:04,890 and in the end any but he writes 1847 01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:06,450 obviously the article goes on for a bit 1848 01:20:11,450 --> 01:20:09,930 longer and he describes why he thinks 1849 01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:11,460 that this could be the end of a myopic 1850 01:20:14,810 --> 01:20:13,410 Lee definitely in the way it's he's in 1851 01:20:18,020 --> 01:20:14,820 the UK I practiced in the UK at the 1852 01:20:19,970 --> 01:20:18,030 moment and I can't say that I do not 1853 01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:19,980 hope that he's right well this is not 1854 01:20:25,310 --> 01:20:22,170 the time to let up I it's not that have 1855 01:20:27,950 --> 01:20:25,320 time to load up our opposition very much 1856 01:20:32,270 --> 01:20:27,960 that he's right but I am I fear that 1857 01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:32,280 he's not and I i have found this this 1858 01:20:38,340 --> 01:20:35,290 case the dingle case 1859 01:20:40,230 --> 01:20:38,350 particularly disturbing particularly 1860 01:20:42,870 --> 01:20:40,240 because as I've as I mentioned to you 1861 01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:42,880 you know I've seen I work with a lot of 1862 01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:44,770 people who got cancer and I and I see 1863 01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:46,810 them go through that treatment and I see 1864 01:20:53,610 --> 01:20:49,090 them see a lot of them come out the 1865 01:20:57,810 --> 01:20:53,620 other end of it you know pretty pretty 1866 01:20:59,100 --> 01:20:57,820 well yeah and you know when I think 1867 01:21:01,730 --> 01:20:59,110 about what this woman must have been 1868 01:21:04,980 --> 01:21:01,740 through and you know it reminds me of 1869 01:21:06,780 --> 01:21:04,990 you know in a previous one about our 1870 01:21:09,480 --> 01:21:06,790 podcasts or someone else's them 1871 01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:09,490 discussing the case of someone who a man 1872 01:21:13,350 --> 01:21:11,050 who died from complications of diabetes 1873 01:21:15,900 --> 01:21:13,360 i think it was at the gangrenous foot 1874 01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:15,910 that he was putting honey or something 1875 01:21:20,490 --> 01:21:17,530 on and you know just some of these cases 1876 01:21:23,670 --> 01:21:20,500 of people who you know get to the point 1877 01:21:26,340 --> 01:21:23,680 in an illness where they are so damaged 1878 01:21:28,740 --> 01:21:26,350 and they just do not seek treatment and 1879 01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:28,750 and I think I see the wrong tree oh yeah 1880 01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:31,810 or they seek the wrong treatment and you 1881 01:21:38,420 --> 01:21:35,650 know I've spoken to some of the people i 1882 01:21:42,870 --> 01:21:38,430 work with the people you know who in 1883 01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:42,880 medical type professions and they you 1884 01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:44,170 know that if you lot of a lot of people 1885 01:21:51,210 --> 01:21:47,410 is look people make their choices but I 1886 01:21:53,460 --> 01:21:51,220 and I agree with that but I think that 1887 01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:53,470 the problem is is that that is I think 1888 01:21:57,270 --> 01:21:55,210 that doctors find it very hard to deal 1889 01:21:59,370 --> 01:21:57,280 with the choices that some of their 1890 01:22:01,200 --> 01:21:59,380 patients make I mean you look at the 1891 01:22:03,690 --> 01:22:01,210 surgeon who was looking after Penelope 1892 01:22:06,570 --> 01:22:03,700 dingle and how absolutely devastated he 1893 01:22:08,340 --> 01:22:06,580 was by the choices she made and I think 1894 01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:08,350 that we must never forget how vulnerable 1895 01:22:13,230 --> 01:22:11,290 these people are how taken advantage of 1896 01:22:15,870 --> 01:22:13,240 they are and that when they're faced 1897 01:22:18,390 --> 01:22:15,880 with the diagnosis that to them is so 1898 01:22:20,460 --> 01:22:18,400 catastrophic I don't think we can say 1899 01:22:22,440 --> 01:22:20,470 well people make their choices because 1900 01:22:24,240 --> 01:22:22,450 they don't make choices in am I in a 1901 01:22:26,310 --> 01:22:24,250 state of mind that is rational they make 1902 01:22:29,010 --> 01:22:26,320 choices in a state of mind that is 1903 01:22:31,470 --> 01:22:29,020 completely overwhelmed and I think that 1904 01:22:34,410 --> 01:22:31,480 the way these vultures take advantage of 1905 01:22:36,930 --> 01:22:34,420 them is just not being addressed you 1906 01:22:38,630 --> 01:22:36,940 must come across a lot of people who 1907 01:22:42,410 --> 01:22:38,640 take the attitude 1908 01:22:43,970 --> 01:22:42,420 of there whoo practitioner or their 1909 01:22:46,430 --> 01:22:43,980 mother or their sister or their friend 1910 01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:46,440 no more than the doctors know absolutely 1911 01:22:51,710 --> 01:22:49,170 yeah absolutely and I think um you know 1912 01:22:53,510 --> 01:22:51,720 if you've got a relative who who you 1913 01:22:55,370 --> 01:22:53,520 trust and who tells you you know you 1914 01:22:57,740 --> 01:22:55,380 should do this and this will be good for 1915 01:22:59,150 --> 01:22:57,750 you and you trust that person and I 1916 01:23:01,220 --> 01:22:59,160 could understand why some people 1917 01:23:02,930 --> 01:23:01,230 particularly a person who's perhaps not 1918 01:23:06,110 --> 01:23:02,940 very well educated or someone who's 1919 01:23:08,300 --> 01:23:06,120 vulnerable emotionally emotionally 1920 01:23:09,980 --> 01:23:08,310 vulnerable and when I say not educated I 1921 01:23:11,330 --> 01:23:09,990 just mean someone who's not doesn't have 1922 01:23:12,530 --> 01:23:11,340 access to the knowledge you wouldn't 1923 01:23:15,440 --> 01:23:12,540 know any better and I think that we 1924 01:23:17,480 --> 01:23:15,450 can't we can't always assume that other 1925 01:23:19,670 --> 01:23:17,490 people have the capacity to assess the 1926 01:23:20,980 --> 01:23:19,680 evidence not everyone does and I think 1927 01:23:22,850 --> 01:23:20,990 that it's the responsibility of the 1928 01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:22,860 regulating bodies to protect those 1929 01:23:27,620 --> 01:23:24,330 people and I just don't think they are 1930 01:23:30,530 --> 01:23:27,630 and and and yeah frankly I'm just sick 1931 01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:30,540 of seeing people you know yes you ending 1932 01:23:35,630 --> 01:23:32,970 our people a free choice but if one of 1933 01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:35,640 those choices is seriously bad they have 1934 01:23:39,260 --> 01:23:37,530 to be worn at the same time though I do 1935 01:23:40,610 --> 01:23:39,270 have to say that I think that a lot of 1936 01:23:43,820 --> 01:23:40,620 people who do make these choices are 1937 01:23:45,050 --> 01:23:43,830 people who are it's interesting I see 1938 01:23:47,530 --> 01:23:45,060 people who come from a higher 1939 01:23:50,660 --> 01:23:47,540 socio-economic background handling more 1940 01:23:52,460 --> 01:23:50,670 towards choosing weird wonderful 1941 01:23:55,130 --> 01:23:52,470 treatments I find that a lot of people 1942 01:23:59,540 --> 01:23:55,140 who come from a lower socioeconomic 1943 01:24:01,130 --> 01:23:59,550 background really I don't know what what 1944 01:24:03,620 --> 01:24:01,140 what evidence there is for this or what 1945 01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:03,630 what that it was yeah I know with 1946 01:24:06,980 --> 01:24:05,370 homeopathy viewer is and I know the 1947 01:24:08,780 --> 01:24:06,990 vaccination stuff as well I think there 1948 01:24:10,910 --> 01:24:08,790 are decoded that seem clever or what 1949 01:24:12,230 --> 01:24:10,920 yeah but I find that you know if I were 1950 01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:12,240 to take two patients and one of them 1951 01:24:16,130 --> 01:24:13,410 came from her you know very high 1952 01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:16,140 socio-economic background and had 1953 01:24:18,740 --> 01:24:17,370 doubled in a bit of yoga and a bit of 1954 01:24:20,150 --> 01:24:18,750 this in a bit of that the minute they 1955 01:24:22,430 --> 01:24:20,160 came along for the diagnosis of cancer 1956 01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:22,440 they'd be jumping and saying oh I must 1957 01:24:25,460 --> 01:24:23,850 go and change my diet and I must do this 1958 01:24:27,530 --> 01:24:25,470 and I've got to go see my you know my 1959 01:24:29,420 --> 01:24:27,540 naturopath perhaps people are more used 1960 01:24:31,460 --> 01:24:29,430 to being in control more you see and 1961 01:24:33,950 --> 01:24:31,470 making informed decisions and they think 1962 01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:33,960 they misjudge their ability to make an 1963 01:24:36,900 --> 01:24:35,370 informed decision this situation that's 1964 01:24:40,050 --> 01:24:36,910 obviously very complex 1965 01:24:41,790 --> 01:24:40,060 absolutely before before we do actually 1966 01:24:43,350 --> 01:24:41,800 is something very important is we should 1967 01:24:45,510 --> 01:24:43,360 remind everyone because I'm sure this 1968 01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:45,520 will be coming out before sunday that 1969 01:24:54,330 --> 01:24:50,050 tickets for Tam Australia will be going 1970 01:24:57,000 --> 01:24:54,340 on sale this sunday the twentieth of 1971 01:25:00,390 --> 01:24:57,010 June at 9am australian eastern standard 1972 01:25:03,110 --> 01:25:00,400 time yes yes and if you want to know any 1973 01:25:08,100 --> 01:25:03,120 any more information you can go to ww 1974 01:25:12,030 --> 01:25:08,110 tem australia org and follow us on at 1975 01:25:19,050 --> 01:25:12,040 tam australia or on our facebook page 1976 01:25:20,610 --> 01:25:19,060 town australia and that's it it's just 1977 01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:20,620 funny because it's been taking or the 1978 01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:23,650 four of us I've been spending pretty 1979 01:25:28,020 --> 01:25:25,930 much every waking minute for the past 1980 01:25:29,490 --> 01:25:28,030 few weeks dealing with this all of a 1981 01:25:31,980 --> 01:25:29,500 sudden we forget to mention it that's 1982 01:25:33,900 --> 01:25:31,990 great yeah maybe one do we want you to 1983 01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:33,910 better take a bit of a break thank you 1984 01:25:37,230 --> 01:25:35,410 for reminding us all that's quite all 1985 01:25:37,760 --> 01:25:37,240 right Joe they get everybody to come 1986 01:25:40,370 --> 01:25:37,770 home 1987 01:25:43,820 --> 01:25:40,380 thank you thank you Richard Ricki Jo 1988 01:26:16,520 --> 01:25:43,830 thank you rob thank you and uncle next 1989 01:26:22,260 --> 01:26:19,740 thank you once again for downloading and 1990 01:26:24,870 --> 01:26:22,270 listening to the skeptic zone not long 1991 01:26:28,379 --> 01:26:24,880 now until a lot of your zone team head 1992 01:26:29,820 --> 01:26:28,389 over for cam 8 in Las Vegas where we'll 1993 01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:29,830 be very happy to meet you if you're 1994 01:26:38,399 --> 01:26:33,730 going and it's only about a very short 1995 01:26:42,450 --> 01:26:38,409 six months now until cam Australia very 1996 01:26:44,490 --> 01:26:42,460 exciting indeed so if we meet you soon 1997 01:26:47,189 --> 01:26:44,500 that will be fantastic if not I hope you 1998 01:26:49,169 --> 01:26:47,199 keep listening to the skeptic zone until 1999 01:26:54,990 --> 01:26:49,179 then this is Richard Saunders signing 2000 01:26:57,330 --> 01:26:55,000 off from Sydney Australia you've been 2001 01:27:01,859 --> 01:26:57,340 listening to the skeptic zone visit our 2002 01:27:04,290 --> 01:27:01,869 website at www skipped exam TV for 2003 01:27:07,230 --> 01:27:04,300 comments contacts and extra video 2004 01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:18,820 skin